Constant high (13.7+) BS reading

Fallenstar

Well-Known Member
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546
Hey RMD

Well Type 1, Type 2 we all still get the same complications if we don't get good control, so that is the main thing Hun that you have that . To be honest however you achieve it and if it's on the least meds possible, well, that just means less side effects because they all have them...keep up the good work and let us know how you go on ,if you do have to go on the meds ect in the furture.

All the best :D
 

cinnamon

Member
Messages
18
"Re: Constant high (13.7+) BS reading

by RussG » August 24th, 2011, 10:23 am
Hi Carophie04,

Everyone is different is somewhat of a mantra here.
..........
If you had an average bg of 8mmol, you would have an HbA1c of 6.9%, which most people would say is perfectly acceptable. You might decide you wanted to be lower than that, but that's a personal choice."
-------------------------
Hi RussG, readers,

May I pretty please ask you how to convert the average bg mmol into HbA1c % ?
and...
Recently, my doctor drew me a graph of a 'flattened lopsided U' and said that the optimum score (least risk) is HbA1c 7.2% for those who can't achieve below 5.5% (for Type 2)

Have you/any readers heard of this news? And your reactions please?
Thank you.
 

RussG

Well-Known Member
Messages
401
Hi cinnamon,

You can convert between HbA1c and average BG reading here:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/hba1c-to-blood-sugar-level-converter.html although you can also do it by one of two calculations:

to estimate HbA1c:

(avg reading + 2.52) / 1.583 or

((avg reading x 18) + 77.3) / 35

to do it the other way:

(HbA1c x 1.583)-2.52 or

((HbA1c x 35) -77.3) / 18

These give different results but are near enough for estimation purposes. They give you an average BG reading during the time covered by the HbA1c, although a) that would clearly mask highs and lows and b) it would also be weighted towards the most recent month. The estimated HbA1c is only going to be as good as your meter readings. If you've got loads, and at different times, it should be fairly decent. If you haven't got many, or they're all just before meals (which would be lowest readings usually) then the estimate would be artificially lowered. I use the 2.52 / 1.583 one.

PS there's a thread about this here. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=23522

I also use a ratio 70: 20: 10 to weight my last three months when calculating HbA1c (i.e. here is my excel fomula =((((LATESTMONTHAVG*7)+(MONTHBEFOREAVG*2)+THIRDMONTHAVG)/10)+2.52)/1.583
 

Grazer

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Messages
3,115
cinnamon said:
Recently, my doctor drew me a graph of a 'flattened lopsided U' and said that the optimum score (least risk) is HbA1c 7.2% for those who can't achieve below 5.5% (for Type 2)

Sorry, don't get this. Is he saying that 7.2 is thus better than 5.9 (for those who can't get below 5.5)? If so, I'd better start topping up with bounty bars.
 

phoenix

Expert
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Have you/any readers heard of this news? And your reactions please?
Possibly your doc is looking at recent trials:
Results from 2 recent trials ,the ACCORD trial and a piece of research from Cardiff University in UK found that groups of people with the lowest HbA1cs had higher mortality rates than those with moderately high HbA1cs around 7% .
We've discussed these trials before (search Cardiff and ACCORD) I think a lot of people think that one of the most important considerations is how you achieve the lower HbA1c.

In the Accord trial, results showed that patients with cardiovascular disease or at least two risk factors for cardiovascular disease or severe atherosclerosis, and an HbA1c of 7·5% who were then given medications to reduce their levels to around 6% had increased mortality . It may be the methods that were used to achieve this lower HbA1c that caused the problem: ie too much medication in order to achieve low levels . These people already had problems with CVD.
http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/articl ... till-risky

In the Cardifff study they examined a large set of patients notes and analysed them. so this was what had happened in a non controlled setting and as such depends to a certain extent to the quality of the data (ie how well the GPS keep their records)
These are 2 of the graphs from the paper. The graphs show the hazard ratios ie the risks of mortality, the least risky place is at the bottom of the curve. The first is for those on a combination of metformin and sulfonylureas, the second for those who had changed their medications to include insulin: In the UK of course .. particularly in the past (and this study was looking at patients from 1986-2008) insulin was very much a 'last resort' It may not be the insulin so much as patients histories of poor control before going onto insulin. Many of those in the insulin group were in fact taking both oral medications and insulin .(so this isn't applicable to T1).
Some reports suggest it may be hypos or low blood glucose levels causing heart problems that were the problem but that is only an hypothesis there is actually no evidence.The cause of death was not acually included in the Cardiff study.( Earlier reports suggested hypos is the ACCORD trial but it was later found that this wasn't the case)
http://www.endocrinetoday.com/view.aspx?rid=60440
Cardiff study original paper.
http://bioestadistica.fib.upc.edu/bioes ... 0study.pdf

I think (personal opinion and I'm neither a doc nor T2 so I have to take insulin) that these studies don't have't much to do with people who are using diet and exercise or just metformin. So if you can get low results using gthese methods fine. I also think that the Cardiff study is perhaps less applicable to younger people (the average age at baseline was in the 60s) . However it might very well be that using lots of drugs for people who have difficulties maintaining a low HbA1c is counterproductive.
 

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cinnamon

Member
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RussG,

Many thanks for the very useful links, and I see that they’re going to switch HbA1c values from % to mmols? Haven’t had this to mine this year.

Grazer,

Spoke too soon.

Phoenix,

Does it mean I have to work harder at abstaining, NEAT, exercises? There goes my dream choc cakes, and yes, bounty bars too.

Thank you friends. (might i be permitted to change my cinnamon to 'kokko' = phoenix, to mark my new resolutions, now that I’ve acquired the habit of sprinkling cinnamon into my used to be very bland oat porridge in the morning?)
 

phoenix

Expert
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5,671
Type of diabetes
Type 1
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Does it mean I have to work harder at abstaining, NEAT, exercises? There goes my dream choc cakes, and yes, bounty bars too.

At my age I seem to produce far to much NEAT but it unfortunately doesn't let me eat more bounty bars!