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Control of ketone body creation

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by PekkaJ, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. PekkaJ

    PekkaJ · Member

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    Hi,
    I have been on LCHF for more than a year and really happy about it. I followed regularly the BG and ketones for the first 6 months but got tired to follow the low and not changing values. I have tried to find research studies about the metabolic control of BG and ketone bodies after long time in LCHF diet when everything has become stable. During the first weeks the ketone values were sometimes quite high and clearly over 1.5 mmol/l. After few months I have not seen any more values over 1.0 mmol/l. My assumption is that liver has "learned" to control better the ketone levels according to need. But is that the case? If so, what are the limits of ketone production in different situations? In addition, I would be interested in knowing if there are studies about the gluconeogenesis and insulin production in stabilized LCHF diet. Will any of the following occur: Pancreas becomes slower to react to fast and large BG rise when that has not happened for a year or two. How high can be BG level be just by gluconeogenesis? How fast that will stop if one eats sugar?
     
  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Hi and welcome. :)

    I recommend that you get the book 'The Art and Science of Low Carb Living' by Volek and Phinney.
    It will answer many of your questions - and probably a few that you hadn't thought to ask. :)

    V&P have been studying the effects of low carbing for over 20 years, and have run multiple studies to examine different aspects. They work with athletes and non athletes, and have spoken many times at conferences.

    You can find some of their lectures on You Tube.
     
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  3. PekkaJ

    PekkaJ · Member

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    Hi Brunneria,

    Thank you for your fast reply and really good links. I reviewed their publications. I did not find yet answers exactly to my questions but many other interesting points as you anticipated. One of the found links was referring to the work of Timothy Noakes' team and, e.g, this article http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1113/JP271934/abstract
    "Gluconeogenesis during endurance exercise in cyclists habituated to a long-term low carbohydrate high-fat diet" by
    Christopher C. Webster, et al. in the Journal of Physiology, 2016, covers part of the topic. I will continue searching.
     
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  4. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Glad to help. :)

    I have seen it mentioned a few times on the forum that ketones tend to be high at the start of a ketogenic diet, but fall once the body has adapted. This has been explained as being because the body uses those ketones as fuel, and over time becomes more and more efficient at using that fuel - which removes the ketones from the bloodstream.

    My own experience is no help with this - I only started testing for ketones years after discovering ketogenic eating, and my home tests barely show any ketones in the blood. But since I have no before and after comparisons, that is proof of nothing. :)

    I believe this subject is discussed in the lecture below:





    Sorry to say that I cannot remember where in the talk he covers this subject.
     
  5. PekkaJ

    PekkaJ · Member

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    Hi All,
    I just got a good summary description about "Keto-Adaptation" by Stephen Phinney, MD, PhD and Jeff Volek, PhD, RD on January 23, 2018
    https://blog.virtahealth.com/keto-adapted/
    It is mostly qualitative but has also some quantitative information with good notes about metabolic areas that information is not yet available.
     
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