Copyright infringement.

Can copyright REALLY be applied to recipes? I sure hope not. I love the recipes that people are posting here!

Besides, even if CR is applicable to recipes on-line, it's not hard to change the wording of the recipe (or convert to metric/imperial measurements, add some ingredients, etc...) to avoid any copyright issues.

WRT recipes - the originators posting them (for free) on t'interweb are doing so to help others. I doubt very much that any of them will be hunting down forums where similar recipes are posted and insisting that the recipe is removed...

Better thigs to worry about than Recipe Copyright!!! :lol:

Fight the power!

Peace, Love and Mexican Fudge!

Most of the recipes I have seen posted on here in the last week or so were subject to somebody's copyright. The condition for the use of the persons copyright are always mentioned on whichever site they have been nicked from. The authors often take a dim view of the misuse of their material.

Before Sue and I were dumped we frequently had to edit posts to comply with copyright. We had one member kickincarbs who complained about such misuse. We negotiated an amicable agreement with her which resulted in an acknowledgement and a mention of the Blog in 'Other forums and Blogs'.

I am sure the 'online Editor' knows all about copyright issues and will deal with them as appropriate in accordance with the OP's copyright and this Forums rules........

Having been the subject of Copyright Theft myself I know how annoying it can be !

When you are a budding author to know that people are posting their recipes it is posted in accordance with the copyright rules and they get a mention, not see it posted as if it is a member here's own work ! It is VERY important to the authors......

Maybe it's time to lighten up the rules around here, then, and allow clickable links in ALL posts? At least then the original auther gets all the credit?

Hello,

Recipes are subject to copyright (providing that they comply with the other elements of it; i.e. that they are original and the recipe is substantive enough to be capable or being copyrighted - so there is arguably no copyright in me writing down the words 'boil an egg'). A large number of traditional recipes would probably not be subject to copyright though as they would be 'public domain' and no longer capable of being copyrighted.

Not being identified as the author of a recipe is not a breach of copyright but a breach of the 'moral rights' of the author.

I would argue that by posting a recipe on a public forum you are granting an implied licence to others to copy your recipe (not considering the forum's position on the ownership of copyright in posts), otherwise what on earth are you doing posting it? As an alternative there would, under UK law, be no or at best only minimal loss suffered by the original owner if the 'implied licence' idea doesn't work (to sue someone you need to show you have the rights, the rights have been breached and you have suffered loss - there is no 'per event' fine for copyright breaches in the UK).

So, all in all the threat from posting recipes from other fora is pretty minimal, even if they are all low carb... :lol:

Notwithstanding FACT (the Federation Against Copyright Theft) there is no such thing as 'copyright theft', by the way, because theft means intention to permanently deprive, and that doesn't really apply to copyright; there is only copyright infringement.

Best

Dillinger

Thanks for those wise words AL - so why do people complain of Copyright Theft or infringement then. Presumably they are aggrieved and their websites have the Copyright rules they expect people to adhere to. What we have seen posted here are not just 'boil an egg' but wholesale verbatim recipes, a quick search of the text reveals all !

Still, as you like to think of yourself as the expert on legal matters perhaps we should all defer to your view .......or is it just that low carb recipes don't count ? :roll:

correct me if I'm wrong re "Copyright Theft" but isn't copyright law civil law but theft is criminal law? :twisted:

The online law of copyright (any website) is exactly the same as the off-line law.

The website is conceptualised in English / Welsh law (there's no such thing as UK Law) as a collection of copyright works, legally distinct, even if actually intermingled.

Literary copyright protects website text, as well as HTML and program code; artistic copyright protects images and photos; musical copyright and sound recording copyright protect music hosted on a site; and copyright or database right (a close relative of copyright) may protect datasets of database-backed sites (case by case basis - no firm precedent).

The complexity of copyright protection and intellectual property in a single website can be staggering. I would go so far as to say that most folks doing thier own little websites have no idea about copyright at all.

cugila said:

Still, as you like to think of yourself as the expert on legal matters perhaps we should all defer to your view .......or is it just that low carb recipes don't count ? :roll:

Click to expand...

Pleasure Ken; I am a copyright lawyer though - you do have a thing for having a pop at professionals posting on the site don't you :lol:

FergusCrawford said:

correct me if I'm wrong re "Copyright Theft" but isn't copyright law civil law but theft is criminal law? :twisted:

Click to expand...

Copyright is governed by the Copyright Designs and Patents Act (1988), which has both civil and criminal sanctions under it.

I think 'theft' is just an easier concept to sell than infringement, also FACT would become FACI which sounds like a swear word, especially the Federation Against Copyright Infringement (European Local Legislation) division... :lol:

Who cares whether its theft/infringement or whatever ! That is just semantics ! It is straightforward misuse of someone else's work. This forum used to have high standards and such things were done properly, so not misusing anybody's Copyright.

Copyright and the Internet

Material that can be found on the Internet will also be subject to copyright. There are a number of licensing schemes that are popular with online publication and allow some free (normally non-commercial) use, the most notable being GPL and Creative Commons.

If you are making/distributing copies of work that you find on the Internet you should check that the licence for the work will allow this and that the site you obtained the work from is itself acting legally. If there is no such licence, do not use the work until you have the permission of the copyright owner.

That is what protects authors work and literary rights, or should we ignore their rights because we think its OK - its only a recipe after all .......

If I want to post a recipe or anything else it would have a small extract, in a quote box as per forum rules, then a clear link to where it comes from. That usually complies with Copyright and satisfies the author. It also makes it clear that it isn't the work of the poster.

Simple really and I don't see why anybody would have a problem with that. Even DCUK info is protected by Copyright - at least last time I looked it was.

Dillinger said:

cugila said:

Still, as you like to think of yourself as the expert on legal matters perhaps we should all defer to your view .......or is it just that low carb recipes don't count ? :roll:

Click to expand...

Pleasure Ken; I am a copyright lawyer though - you do have a thing for having a pop at professionals posting on the site don't you :lol:

Click to expand...

AL
Ah but you see we only have your word for that...... As far as most are concerned here you are a Diabetic, nothing more. Same as me !

As for professionals posting here , would that be the ones who tell us our diet is **** and unsustainable ? Despite the fact that it is sustainable and works well ? With 'professionals' like that they probably work for the NHS or DUK ......

Peace, love and Pork Scratchings mate ......

Mea Culpa.

I am so very sorry to have upset so many people just because I wanted to share recipes on this site with the aim of helping people to cook to help their health.

I promise never to do so again ....

Now stop arguing - Please

Jane

Just to help out any budding or even practising Lawyers around here this is a link to a very useful document all about UK Copyright .........

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/c-essential.pdf


Jane
Nobody is arguing, and the post is not aimed at anybody in particular. It is just about Copyright, nothig more. If you think this is an argument, sorry but we like to call it a discussion. Not everybody agrees - makes life so interesting, don't you think !

For the record Al and I are 'old pals' and like to discuss things openly.

I agree with Cathetinecherub and Ken regarding the copyright laws, no one wants their works to be stolen qnd copied by others. There are laws that say that if you want to copy/paste an article/recipe from another site, you can only paste 10% of it and have to supply the link for the rest to be read on the original site.

Having said that, isn't warning/reminding members a part of Admin's/Moderators job or are we now self-moderating ourselves?

Dillinger said:

Hello,I would argue that by posting a recipe on a public forum you are granting an implied licence to others to copy your recipe (not considering the forum's position on the ownership of copyright in posts),

Click to expand...

By your argument anyone can copy recipes/articles from other books/websites and write a book and claim that they are the "original" authors of these books than, right?

otherwise what on earth are you doing posting it?

Best

Dillinger

Click to expand...

If they don't want you to copy them what are they doing writing it in books?

I think anyone who writes recipes in a book or on a website do it so that others can cook that particular food/cake etc. and enjoy it. I don't believe that any author writes such things so that others can steal it and claim it as their own and earn money on something that they never invented in the first place. Please don't tell me that a recipe is not an invention.

Copyright PROTECTION

If any website is really concerned about their protected material then all they have to do is set the relevant pages up so that 'right clicking' is disabled.

Re: Copyright PROTECTION

Hobs said:

If any website is really concerned about their protected material then all they have to do is set the relevant pages up so that 'right clicking' is disabled.

Click to expand...

True but there are still different ways of copying than just "right clicking" (ie: re-typing/screen capture)

Would it be so wrong to post a link to the original authors website? Unless of course one has ulterior motives that is.

Hands up all those who would not mind spending months and months building a website only to have your hard work (recipes/articles) copied by someone else and claim as their own. I certainly wouln't like it.

Definitely not an expert but I found this from Cambridge University where it argues that

'It is only possible to argue that an implied licence exists where all the circumstances suggest the copyright owner expected the copyright material to be used in the way contemplated.'
http://www.caret.cam.ac.uk/copyright/Pa ... ml#Topic45
You might feel that someone who puts their own original recipe on a forum website is fine about it, but if that recipe came in turn from a blog or other source then it might not be the case.

Personally my blog has a copyright notice, and I notice that many others do likewise. I don't know how much weight it has but it's there in an attempt to protect my 'intellectual property' for what it's worth!
(although the mind boggles as to where a blog written in France, hosted on a US website and plagiarised by someone in the UK is protected :roll: )