JohnEGreen
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Amongst the tables there's a statement that says values with a * have not been included as they mean 5 or fewer and would allow identification of individuals. This is true in both the full population data and in the T1 and T2 only cohort data.Hi @Lupf the paper (2) does state total T1 deaths on page 2 at 418 deaths, then from the table on page 17 you can see the breakdown by age groups 50+ summing to 396 deaths; the data for under 50s is obfuscated for confidentiality reasons, but the balance is 22 deaths for T1s under 50 (a further check is that the deaths for T1s over 50 in that table only sum to 94.6%).
So 22 deaths for T1 aged under 50 (though these can't be broken down further to under 40 and 40-49 groups).
Thank you for this thread, it is good to have this detailed discussion.
That is a massive difference between male and female. People over 70 are told to shield, but maybe it should be women over 70 and men over 60 (or men over 65 and women over 75)? Given the massive influences of age and sex, I don't think a diabetes diagnosis on its own should be enough to be told to self isolate. Plug in your age and sex and then decide whether you need to panic....
Stay safe and well everyone.
Would that be a bad thing?Ah but Ellie, that would mean most of the Cabinet would be out of action.
Would that be a bad thing?
Interesting, I only checked a couple of papers and they seemed to be in legit medical journals. The science mag article raises scepticism, but I couldn't find a study which claims that it is all wrong. Not all claims of correlations with 2D:4D are well established, some may be non-existing. This seems to be what the literature is about. @Bill_St do you have an opinion on this?@Lupf
Not as widely accepted in the scientific community as one may think for one thing blood samples from fetuses in the first trimester are for the most part unobtainable so animal studies have to be relied on.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/201...nger-length-can-reveal-personality-and-health
Interesting, I only checked a couple of papers and they seemed to be in legit medical journals. The science mag article raises scepticism, but I couldn't find a study which claims that it is all wrong. Not all claims of correlations with 2D:4D are well established, some may be non-existing. This seems to be what the literature is about. @Bill_St do you have an opinion on this?
Taking the first, many are panicking that twice as many T2 and 3 1/2 times as many T1, die of Coronavirus and translate that into T2 are at double the risk and T1 are at almost 4x the risk.
But the data set is just of those PWD treated in hospital, more specifically in ICU, because those were the only ones tested in the small data set used from early China.
It ignores the vast numbers who do not go to hospital and thus were not tested.
I would love to know how many of those who have died as a result of Covid with diabetes as an underlying health condition didn't know they had it until they were tested in hospital and therefore were not being treated for it and that's why it was not 'controlled'. Too many people still don't know about diabetes, and docs should not be frightened of offending overweight/obese patients by getting them tested in the first place surely?!If you're referring to the NHS figures released on Friday there has been no hazard adjustment. That is what has caused the uproar and panic. Nothing about age, sex, BMI, control etc. All the areas required to perform hazard adjustment. They are just raw figures.
Not every obese person is of necessity diabetic and many people who are diabetic are thin I am talking of course about T2 diabetes so such a strategy would not by any means cover every one and would be discriminatory. My doctor would have to test himself first.I would love to know how many of those who have died as a result of Covid with diabetes as an underlying health condition didn't know they had it until they were tested in hospital and therefore were not being treated for it and that's why it was not 'controlled'. Too many people still don't know about diabetes, and docs should not be frightened of offending overweight/obese patients by getting them tested in the first place surely?!
I would love to know how many of those who have died as a result of Covid with diabetes as an underlying health condition didn't know they had it until they were tested in hospital and therefore were not being treated for it and that's why it was not 'controlled'. Too many people still don't know about diabetes, and docs should not be frightened of offending overweight/obese patients by getting them tested in the first place surely?!
I agree with this. My mum is very sensitive to insulin. She also seems to do better when unwell if she has a higher blood sugar. She is an older person (over 80) with Type 1 (diagnosed age 50 as Type 2)It's a fascinating subject and in view of the research paper that @Mike d linked to in the Covid thread which discusses the prevalence of increased insulin resistance in the BAME community I have taken a quick look at the immune system and glucose requirements.
It would seem that the immune system is 'glucose hungry' and I presume that we may need glucose for energy to fight the invaders. But if you can't use insulin efficiently then where does that leave you?
Similarly, if one's a1c is very low, would a person have enough glucose to mount an efficient immune response? With our old friends the mice, glucose was “required for survival in models of viral inflammation, it was lethal in models of bacterial inflammation."
Some bedtime reading.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/498965/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/...e-response-in-the-flu-and-possibly-covid-191/
Propolol, Ramipril, Thyroxine, Atorvastatin, LansolprazalWhat heart medication do you take? Some medications cause you to go on the shielding list.
How can one shield themselves if they have to go shopping? If people are not on the list, they cannot get shopping delivered. We can now because slots have opened up.Am I missing something or can't you just decide to shield yourself if you think you need to?
I meant to say. On the daily updates, they said that they have put people in the vulnerable category, they have now realised this. These people should not of been on the list. If we get a second wave then Diabetics and people with heart disease will be put on the list. Bit late now lolHow can one shield themselves if they have to go shopping? If people are not on the list, they cannot get shopping delivered. We can now because slots have opened up.
ExactlyHi, well you could obviously, but you would then be at the mercy of your Employers thinking you were trying to pull a fast one, without the 'letter' you would be classed as any other employee. Why then would an Employer say 'oh, yes, off you go for 12 weeks, we'll still pay you just because you're worried'. Personally, for anyone working (and especially those in a high risk occupation or those who would not be paid if they stayed at home, etc) the letter is at the very least an instruction to the Employer that they have a very vulnerable person whom they need to support and if not the letter, then being in the clinically vulnerable category which (should) force them to seriously consider your welfare. Whether anyone gets that support is a different matter of course! x
Actually. My doctor told me that I am at a very very high risk but not vulnerable. Now on one of the daily updates, they have said that some people were on the vunerable shield list when they should not have been, and as time has gone on, they have missed some medical conditions who should of been on it. Heart Disease and type 2 diabetes. If we get a second wave they said these will be added to the list. 29% people with type 2 died when getting Covid, 30% with Heart Disease. As time has gone on they have found out what health conditions are affected by this virus. Well seeing that it attacks the heart and lungs, I would of thought that is not rocket science. We should of been on the listThe GP does not decide who is on the "extremely vulnerable" list. That is decided by the Government, doubtless decided by their scientific and medical advisers. Those are on the list: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19. This does not include heart disease. Things that only increase the risk slightly, like T2 (which doubles the basic 1% risk to 2%) are not considered sufficient to merit staying indoors completely, which is considered bad for health as well as difficult to do. Those at the very highest risk, next to the extremely vulnerable are the elderly. Over 80's have an 18% higher risk than the rest of the population but are still not classed as "extremely vulnerable"
That is 29% of people ill enough from Covid-19 to be admitted to hospital and who happened to have Type 2 diabetes. It doesn't necessarily mean that diabetes hastened their demise. The 29% doesn't apply to Type 2's in general, those who caught the virus and had mild or no symptoms are not included in any calculation.29% people with type 2 died when getting Covid
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