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Covid/Coronavirus and diabetes - the numbers

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Lupf, May 15, 2020.

  1. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately it doesn’t always work. Despite being on a number of drugs inc beta blockers, blood pressure pills, digitoxin and Parkinson Pills the only regular check he gets is his INR due to being on Warfarin. The asthma clinic closed 2 years ago because they couldn’t find a new asthma nurse. A new GP in the practice was horrified to find that he had had no blood tests for 3 years to check his kidney function etc nor had his blood pressure checked for 2 years. Hopefully he will now get proper checks. Ironically if he didn’t have chronic conditions he would probably be getting more health checks. I tried to book him in once but he didn’t qualify due to being a regular visitor to the practice!!!
     
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  2. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  3. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  4. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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  5. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  6. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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  7. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    My opinion is that unless someone tested positive for covid-19 back in October, then there is absolutely no evidence that they had Covid-19 back in October, and they are just speculating wildly.

    Everyone seems to be conveniently forgetting that there are numerous other virus floating about, from colds to influenza with a massive cross over of symptoms. Just like any other year.

    Even having antibodies now, more than 6 months later is no evidence of having had Covid-19 last year. All it proves is that the individual has generated antibodies to covid-19 after some kind of exposure to it. Could have been an asymptomatic infection, and it could have been a month ago, not last October.

    ed. to add: There seem to be a few people vying for some kind of Social Media Patient Zero accolade. Seems rather pointless to me.
     
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    #207 Brunneria, Jun 9, 2020 at 12:50 PM
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  8. Jamie H

    Jamie H · Well-Known Member

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    Agree with this 100%

    However, interested to see if there's any mileage on claims around T cell immunity and how these aren't being picked up on antibody tests.

    Also recent claims by WHO asymptomatic people aren't spreading covid as easily as first thought.

    Both positive in their own way.. Could lead to the virus burning out if the latter is true and symptomatic people can be traced effectively.
     
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  9. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I have never felt so poorly as I did end November. And I've never had an illness where I've struggled to breath. Persistent cough that lasted well into March and even now i have very chesty days. I'm contemplating asking my Dr for an xray as i feel there has been permanent damage.

    Symptoms came in waves. Felt I was getting better, then BOOM I got worse. 3 times. Another trait I believe

    Fever/hot/cold/chills
    Couldn't breath all the way in
    Persistent cough (my post on fb actually say 'a cough that would kill a horse)
    Wheezy as! (Post says 'like I smoke 100 a day and ive never smoked one cigarette)
    Headache rated 3 on a scale of 1 to 10 ( I hardly ever get them)
    Nausea
    Lack of appetite (lost 5lbs)
    Tired

    This is why I did the antibody test which came back positive. Hubby who was very poorly starting 2 days before me came back negative. Which confuses me even more. But through research (thanks mainly to Ivor Cummins) I've learned why these tests can show no antbodies.

    I do realise that i could have picked covid up asymptomatically since November.

    I'm the sort of person who has to have answers and am trying to find them. Its driving me quite bonkers actually.

    Personally I'm not after any accolade, I'm sharing our results highlighting the probability it was here earlier than first thought. I wouldn't be happy being pt zero either.
     
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    #209 Debandez, Jun 9, 2020 at 1:45 PM
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  10. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Had you or your husband been abroad just prior to your November illness?
    The main reason I found the article absurd was the fact that they seem to have based it on the hospital car park being full. In my experience hospital car parks are all too often full.
     
  11. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    No but me and hubby went to school reunion on 21st November. Lots of ex pupils and teachers hugging and shaking hands. One lady almost didn't come as so poorly. Over 350 people. They came from far and wide. 1st reunion ever. 100 year celebration.

    Hubby fell ill 24th, then me in 26th, extremely poorly 27th onwards.

    https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/...-pupils-delight-thames-school-reunion-1325494
     
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    #211 Debandez, Jun 9, 2020 at 2:32 PM
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  12. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I'm sorry that you are still not feeling 100%, but that isn't a conclusive sign of COVID-19 either.

    The symptoms you describe are NOT restricted to COVID-19 and people feel incredibly ill with flu every year. with and without pneumonia and sometimes permanent lung damage. Such illnesses are horrible, sometimes life threatening, and sometimes life altering.

    Having had flu myself on 3 occasions over the last 53 years (once aged 25ish, once the Swine Flu year, and once a couple of years ago), I know how varied the symptoms can be, and exactly how awful you can feel. But that doesn't change my opinion that testing positively for a COVID-19 antibody test is simply a (not 100% accurate) way to establish that at some point in the past, that person generated antibodies. It does NOT establish that symptoms some 6-8 months earlier were caused by COVID-19.
     
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    #212 Brunneria, Jun 9, 2020 at 2:48 PM
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  13. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I do get that. I really do. I am determined to clarify.

    I read articles like this:

    https://amp.rfi.fr/en/france/202005...-in-mid-november-doctors-say-colmar-haut-rhin
     
  14. Lupf

    Lupf Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    According to Francois Balloux, director of the Genetics Institute at UCL, this very implausible, which you should read as "This is wrong".

    The analysis of the genome sequencing of Covid looks at variations from person to person and in time and finds that these sequences all are sharing a common ancestor around November 2019, which is when SARS-CoV-2 jumped into its human host.

    see, https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1270294906788098049
    and this paper https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567134820301829

    I am sorry @Debandez that you were ill and hope you've recovered
     
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    #214 Lupf, Jun 9, 2020 at 8:59 PM
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  15. Lupf

    Lupf Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The time of when the virus jumped to humans is a scientific question, so we should ask the scientists, see my answer to @Debandez for an explanation and a couple of links.

    It doesn't matter what the Chinese ministry says, even if their record is better than our government.
     
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  16. Debandez

    Debandez Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    I'm very well thankfully but it knocked the stuffing out of me like nothing has before. I still have my WhatsApp voicemails to my auntie sent during my illness in November so I have a good record of events. I'm happy knowing I've had it and will be immune (but even that isn't a dead cert!).
     
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    #216 Debandez, Jun 9, 2020 at 10:23 PM
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2020
  17. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    But we all know that scientists don’t agree on everything (or indeed much at all when it comes to Covid) and that science isn’t a way of establishing unequivocal truth.
     
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  18. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be speculation as to when even if they had an answer, it would of been spreading at some rate before the first case is detected and I don't think anyone can really pin point that. Other then just a guesstimate.
     
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  19. Lupf

    Lupf Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    When scientists argue then this is progress!!!

    I understand this is difficult to understand for non-scientists, so let me try to explain. Whenever an interesting topic arises, scientists gather data, make quantitative analysis and compare this to a possible hypothesis. The terms model or theory are also used. When a model does not agree with the data it is discarded. Scientists then write up their study and submit it to a journal and/or arxiv where it will be peer reviewed. That means other scientists who are also specialists in the area read the paper very critically and pose difficult questions, i.e. scientists argue. Only if these questions are answered to the satisfaction of the reviewers the paper will be accepted by a legit journal. At the end of this scientific process wrong claims will be ruled out.

    However, science can only falsify claims, e.g. the world is demonstrably not flat. When a hypothesis or model passes all tests, it becomes accepted as correct and we usually call it a theory, e.g. evolution can explain all life forms on Earth. Scientists still argue about details, e.g. before DNA sequencing, the hippotamus was seen as closely related to the pig, now it looks like the whale is its closest relative, but evolution is accepted as a fact.

    For Covid we are still learning. Peer review of papers is often still ongoing, however as results are time critical, they are being discussed in the press and used by politics. This can be very dangerous, but with Covid we did not have the luxury to wait. In fact countries that acted fast did much better then the UK which wasted almost two weeks in March after Italy had reached 1000 deaths. However several Covid facts are agreed upon already, e.g. the fatality risks depends strongly on age and it makes it worse if you are diabetic.

    Regarding the date of Covid entering humans, there are already over 10 studies which all give a range typically November to December 2019 with 6 Oct 2019 to 17 Jan 2020 as extreme values, see Table 1 of https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567134820301829. To me this looks very much like an emerging consensus.

    Unfortunately absolute truth does not exist in science. If you want unequivocal truth you need to turn to religion, but then it is not science. Science can be confusing and scientists can also make mistakes, this is why it needs peer review and important results need to be corroborated by other scientists. That said science is still the best way to make progress. In fact I would argue, it is the only way.
     
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    #219 Lupf, Jun 10, 2020 at 10:09 AM
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2020
  20. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    I have no desire to derail the thread but find your response patronising in the extreme.

    Indeed I don't think we that far apart in our understanding of the limitations of science, the process of which I fully understand. I would have hoped that the context of my response indicated that I am in no way seeking unequivocal truth - merely pointing out that I very much doubt it exists.

    Scientists or non-scientists, all opinions are welccome and valid here.
     
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