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Dairy causing problems

Hi . Have you thought about Gluconeogenasis, this is where your body generates glucose from the protein side of the process. This is why you tend to get muscle wasteing when on a low carb, low protien , high fat diet , such as the paleo diet.

Not fully sure of my facts, but I had problems with rising bm's and the more I decreased the carb and protein content in my diet the worse my bm's became. I now make sure I get at least 100g of protien a day, mainly to prevent muscle loss. This seems to have brought everything back under control.

I must admit, I do struggle to get my head round all the metabolic processes and how they work. I think it's easier to win the lottery.

Maybe someone with more knowledge could offer more detailed advice along this line. I've been thinking of posting a question along these lines myself. but as I said above I'm still trying to fully understand it all myself.
 
Hi Pete, Steve did my donut based on an average days food, this is it viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30311&start=90#p289313 I actually need to drop my protein slightly and up my fats. I will be cutting my protein and all milk, and adding extra fat and hoping that will settle my figures. It's only two weeks ago I was all 4's and low 5's, now I am no 4's high 5's to middle 6's. Due to the removal of all visceral fat by doing the Newcastle diet, this really shouldn't be happening, certainly not this soon post diet. Steve or Stephen and the science whiz kids, one of them will put you right, science baffles me! OH, Hana is excellent with science as well.
 
Ok am now at more of a loss than before. +2 reading 5.7 the lowest reading all day! SO, I can eat double cream with berry's but I can't eat berry's with Greek yogurt. However, (this is the fun bit) If I have cream or milk alone or in coffee it spikes me, if I have cream in mashed cauliflower it spikes me, but I can add lots of butter to cauliflower no problem. :roll:

Does anyone have the foggiest idea what is going on here? :crazy:
 
New batch of test strips?
 
catza said:
New batch of test strips?
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No, I thought of that, but I will probably have to open a new pack tomorrow, so the strips I have I have had a few days now. Still :crazy:
 
I wouldn't worry Jo. Remember +/- at least 15%. I've often taken a reading and thought ooo that's high/low and done it again and got a figure that's totally different by anything up to 4 points :roll:
 
tree-peony said:
I wouldn't worry Jo. Remember +/- at least 15%. I've often taken a reading and thought ooo that's high/low and done it again and got a figure that's totally different by anything up to 4 points :roll:
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I would agree but my issue is that my figures are all out of whack from the ND in their entirety. I am puzzled how I am getting readings in the 5's and 6's on such a low carb amount. Also I am totally confuzzled how I can eat some foods with something else and get a higher reading than eating it with something else that could be lower carb, or contain more fat that should make the carbs absorb slower. It seems I need to be hyper aware of what foods I mix with what. I am going to sit tomorrow and completely review my entire diet. If I can work out what will go with what ok, then I should be ok. The problem is, nothing diabetes related is ever a cert, and rarely the same twice. I think one major lesson with this condition, always expect the unexpected. :roll:
 
tree-peony said:
it's so bloody hard isn't it :cry:
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I've always felt pretty confident, maybe a bit cocky thinking I could keep tight control easily. Just had that notion wiped clean out of me, as I now realise that no, I can't! My diabetes has always been pretty simple and straight forward until now. Guess I've just joined the regular diabetes club, with everyone else!
 
I've just done mine (I always do before bed) and it was 18!! tried another finger and it was 15.6. I've just washed and dried my hands so there really should have been any difference. (15.6 I believe. It was 15.2 before my evening meal)
 
Hi Defren!

I have a similar issue with dairy if I eat it on its own. By this I mean, cheese, yoghurt, milk will all cause a disproportionate rise in my BG. Even a tiny drop of milk in tea will spike me by about 2 - 3m/mol. I was eating 50g raspberries and 75g yoghurt for breakfast and was having to jab 1.5 units Apidra to cover. (Strawberries do not spike me, but raspberries do, BTW :crazy: ) Anyway, I added 20g Lizi's granola to the breakfast, and I still have to jab 1.5 units Apidra, despite the massive increase in carbs from 6 to 15g. I have no idea why!

Smidge
 
Hi Jo! No science here, but I just wonder if your body is in a bit of shock after coming off the ND regime, and is over reacting to the new carbs you're having. Perhaps it will settle back a bit after a period of adjustment. Remember, your readings are actually very good, just more than you're used to. If your highest 2 hours is 6.5 then that's where a lot of non diabetics would be, albeit with a more carby meal. Try and take it easy (remember what stress does) and see how it goes over the next week; a week won't harm you! Keep notes and repeat meals in a few days time that gave you odd results to see if things change. You'll be good!
 
paragliderpete said:
Hi . Have you thought about Gluconeogenasis, this is where your body generates glucose from the protein side of the process.
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This is something I've been thinking about too. When I came off the Newcastle diet, my fasting BG fell a little and 2hr post-meal readings fell quite a bit to mid/low 5's. During the last week, I've succumbed to my cheese addiction and have been eating way too much - and both my fasting and meal+2 readings have started to rise a little (fasting has averaged about 6.2 this week). My breakfast+2 readings for the last 7 days have been 5.5, 5.7, 5.3, 5.2, 5.8, 6.5, 7.2.

Whilst cheese has lots of fat, it also has quite a bit of protein - so maybe generation of glucose from protein is an issue for me too. I've also noticed that I am not now (or barely) in ketosis, despite eating less than 25g of carbs each day (usually <20). I suspect that I am eating way too much protein and that this is generating glucose and causing the rise in BGs. During the next week, I'm going to tackle this by having an Atkins Advantage shake for breakfast, normal low carb lunches and dinners - and a complete ban on cheese. To keep fat levels where they should be, I'm going to splash some more mayo on the salads and maybe butter on green veg (both of which have very little protein).

My bet is that is isn't dairy per se that causes this problem, but perhaps it is the protein in cheese and yoghurt that does. We'll see .....

Andrew
 
Defren said:
My diabetes has always been pretty simple and straight forward until now. Guess I've just joined the regular diabetes club, with everyone else!
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When you go back to see the doc to get your blood results, if the HBA1c is very low (as it probably will be), why dont' you ask for a OGTT then you'll know for sure whether your diabetes has been reversed by the Newcastle diet?

After I have my bloods taken in a week or so, I'm planning my own version of this. It's called a fish & chip test!! I did it about 9 months ago (when I was still on a raft of medication) and have the results so can compare. Should be interesting.

Andrew
 


I doubt my GP will agree to a GTT and to be honest I don't want to ask for one, as my view is diabetes can be made easier to deal with by diet and exercise, but can't be cured or reversed. As we all know, crank up the carbs and BG's are going to rise. That says to me that we can manage our condition, but not reverse it per se.

Fasting BG was 5.7 today, so has in many ways made my mind up about what to do. I am going to go back to a shake for lunch and supper and eat a proper meal with smaller amounts of protein, for the next week maybe 2 and see what happens. I suppose it's all just trying different things until you find a system that works for you.
 
Defren said:
my view is diabetes can be made easier to deal with by diet and exercise, but can't be cured or reversed.
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According to Prof Taylor, Type 2 diabetes is caused by excess fat in the pancreas and liver - and the diet removes that - and hence reverses Type 2 diabetes (for some folks). If you don't believe the results of the Newcastle study, why do the diet?

Andrew
 
andrewk said:
I suspect that I am eating way too much protein and that this is generating glucose and causing the rise in BGs.
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Yesterday I had a small amount of cambozola but no cheddar. My BG at bedtime was 4.7 and 5.2 fasting this morning. Weird ....

Andrew
 

I did the diet because I wanted to get rid of the visceral fat around my organs to give them, especially my pancreas the best chance possible.

After 2 days of mixing things up and trying different things including a ton of exercise today, my BG is still peaking at 6.9 so I am just going to roll with it over the weekend and speak with my GP on Wednesday when I go for my HbA1c results!

I admit defeat and give up (for now).
 
I may well be missing the obvious here, but isnt 6.9 OK?

I imagine you are eating a bit more now, so there would be more in your stomach to digest at one time, and more carbs than previously, so wouldnt that give a higher reading than before anyway?
 
Defren I can understand your frustration. <<< hugs>>>

I am in the same boat getting higher readings and I have found it quite demoralising. I can honestly say that I haven't changed anything I have been eating and despite waiting for for some other health reason to show itself I have remained in good health and have maintained my exercise/activity levels. I am still losing weight so I guess that is a plus point but getting high 5/6+s on waking is the pits after having got used to 4/5 for some weeks. I guess in my case I will feel more at ease when I am further down the line dealing with my Diabetes, have more NHS tests that I can rely on, and thus have more have more confidence in own control

I am not due my 2nd HbA1C test till September at the earliest so I have had to reconcile myself to accepting the need to keep going with LCHF without the reassurance of lowering test results and have decided to cut back my testing to just my main meal of the day. I will just use the results to ensure I am aware of any spikes and in this way I am hoping that I can remove any stress factor.
 
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