• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Dawn Phenomenon - What the hell is that..??

P

Peter_Sylvester

Guest
I have noticed that my BS readings actually INCREASE overnight - even though I am fasting.
I have been told that it is the Dawn Phenomenon, and I need to find out more about it.
Anyone got any ideas what causes it, and the best way to counteract it..?
 
Google it ... better still search the forum. Thousands of entries on the subject
 
I suffered dawn phenomenon when first diagnosed, my liver loved to give me a spurt of glucose before I woke up to get me moving! Fasting blood sugars are the last to get under control. I still find now that if I don’t eat a low carb breakfast as soon as I get up my levels continue to rise as my liver wants to continue supplying an extra umph! Good excuse to have breakfast in bed! My shower and everything waits til after I’ve eaten these days
 
The simplest explanation of Dawn Phenomena (or Liver Dump) is that prior to waking the Liver dumps glucose into the blood stream in expectation of energy use at waking. It is a normal process but it can happen at any time during the day. I choose not to test my fasting bg because I have sleep disturbance which affects the readings. I also choose not to take breakfast, firstly because of habit and secondly because whether I eat or not makes not a jot of difference to my dp. When and if my sleep improves I shall return to testing.
 
I find the same if I’ve exercised to late and don’t have enough fuel in the fire so to speak. My body in the morning shows beginning of ketosis and higher than normal sugars?
 
I find Dr Jason Fung's explanation of the dawn phenomenon most helpful for T2D
https://idmprogram.com/dawn-phenomenon-t2d-8/

I skipped a couple of dinners...and my fasting BG has remained around 5.5 mmol for the past 2 years...
 
I had just posted about this elsewhere by coincidence. This phenomenon has been one of the most intractable aspects of my diabetes - rising inexorable from the dead of the night, however low I've got overnight, and regardless of whether I have breakfast or not. I'd managed to limit it by exercise after I got up but never got rid of the first stage of it rising two or more hours before waking.

But I'm a week into the Newcaslte/8-week blood glucose diet and I have begun to notice already that it seems to have disappeared. I flat line all night and only rise slightly after waking (about half a per cent in the hour after waking) and only really put on a burst after I have breakfast.

When I watched Roy Taylor's lectures about the diet he did show that most subjects had "normal" fasting levels within the first week or so of the diet and then levelled off as they were losing more weight over the other seven weeks. So I'm wondering if, even after such a short time, my response to cortisol/glaucagon production has already improved.

I think I already noticed it improved on the mornings after my 5:2 fasting days as well. So maybe it's a body conserving energy response (actually having a lower liver dump) rather than improving insulin tolerance to that dump. But it looks great on my Libre chart at least!
 
I first came across the DP when I first joined the forum last year.

It reminded me of the days of old when I used to party abit in the 1960's. You would latch onto a drop dead gorgeous female and take her home. Have a great fun night, and wake up semi sober in the morning next to some one with a face like a hat full of r soles.

Now that is a dawn phenomenon.
 
Well my liver forgot to put it’s clock back! I set my alarm and woke at the ‘normal’ time having put my clocks back. Unfortunately my liver forgot and my fasting glucose was 6.0mmols/l It’s usually in the low-mid 5s!
 

In normal healthy people the liver will dump glucose in the blood stream from its own stores whenever it detects glucose is low. The pancreas then leaps into action and secretes some insulin to balance this out and keep glucose levels stable, at the same time telling the liver to stop dumping. This is all regulated by certain hormones. It saves our lives, because otherwise in times of fasting and between meals (and exercise in some cases) our glucose levels would be insufficient to feed our brains and red blood cells, and we would die.

This system breaks down when we are diabetic with insulin resistance. The liver dumps its stored glucose but due to insulin resistance the secreted insulin can't do its job properly, the liver keeps dumping and the glucose stays in the blood stream until enough insulin has been produced to clear it, which can take ages.

The system also breaks down if our pancreas is a bit worn out and doesn't produce enough insulin.

Basically, for those with insulin resistance the only real way to prevent it happening at significant levels is to reduce the amount of IR.
 
My doctor has never mentioned dawn phenom to me at all. However, she said that a sightly elevated blood sugar in the a.m. is directly proportionate to whatever you're doing in the evening; snack and amount of meds taken after dinner. So I added a quarter of a pill to my regimen after dinner when I had some popped corn and that straightened everything out. Grains...they get me every time!
 
Hi @judlaw
I think the answer from @Bluetit1802 (above) is the key - although I have also found that a snack or protein bar just before going to bed also helps.
Thanks to the use of the Libre, I can see that my bloods start to rise at around 4:00 am each morning, as a mechanism of giving me the energy that I need to get started each day.
In my case, they will rise from an overnight level of around 5.0 to 7.0 or 8.0 as a result of the liver dump.
On waking, I try to have my breakfast quickly, to signal to my liver that I am now "awake" ..!
It seems to work a treat for me.
I have now managed to stay within my "tramlines target" for several weeks, which makes managing my bloods for the rest of the day so much easier.
Hope that helps
Peter
 

Hi Peter! Our Virta team wrote this explanation of the Dawn Phenomenon - basically, it's high BG right around dawn or waking time that is caused by hormones (ie adrenaline, cortisol, etc), glycogenolysis or gluconeogenesis. There are some strategies you can take. If your BG numbers are rising sharply in the morning and staying elevated all day, it might be something else though!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn More.…