DIABETES 2 WEIGHT AND INSULIN?

[pollensa]

Hello

Catch 22 situation re weight and insulin both interconnected with Diabetes 2.

Based on experts advices info, i.e.

1.
It is stressed weight is one area of great importance to aim and reduce regards Diabetes 2, no doubt also generally, in best interests of ones health, diabetic or not, this seems good medical sound advice and cannot be denied for us all.

2.
It is also advised that Insulin can in some cases, if not most, add /cause weight unfortunately?

This is where catch 22 comes in, where do we go what do we do? example...

"one is giving great efforts to reduce weight with good weight loss results to help their diabetic situation, suddenly, this person t has been prescribed to take medication /insulin, which is known to cause weight increase? although efforts to reduce weight continue, as before, the weight that was dropping before, unfortunately results, weight stays the same, and or actually increases due to the medicine required"

in cases such as this, based on fact, as weight loss vitally important re diabetes 2, and more weight gain is not preferred, yet insulin required by many, the medicine, in turn, puts on weight?

"What is the solution here, or is there a Solution for now or future regards this catch 22 situation one can find themselves in one hand trying so hard to meet targets weight loss, and then have to go to the Doctor and explain, concerns, weight stopped dropping, and actually I have put more weight on since taking Insulin, do doctors have a balance of what can be done to solution this situation, or what are doctors recommending to one when this situation is in place as guide, has anyone been guided as to what to do, if they find themselves in this unfortunate catch 22 situation?

Just a question if a solution balance is available to stay this happening or help efforts of weight loss to continue even if lesser than before? or if anyone has any feedback on this topic, which seems to be a situation for so many out there trying so hard and have had great results due to their efforts, but now find difficult to keep their results?

How does one get over this hurdle?

 

[Robin101]

You are right of course. Diabetes is a hugely complicated problem. And with so many affected / impacted systems any improvement is gradually.
Form my own personal experience, and this is just me, I have researched hugely on what my actual calorie requirements are per day. And just about every public statement I read is wrong and too high.
The body's complicated systems mean it can adjust across a wide range of calorie intakes and neutralise the effects. I am 61, 6ft tall, moderately active and 98kg. And reducing steadily. Was 120 two years back and heading for 84 as a target so I'm over halfway. Note it isn't a weight drop over a week or two - it's measured in years..
I know for a fact that at 1200cals per day I stay put. No gains, no losses. At 800 per day I lose weight. At 1600 I gain weight. And all these numbers would technically qualify as a 'diet'.
Often I see 2500 Cal's as normal and 2000 as diet. And these are just too high.
Exercise is key. Any exercise helps. But as we all know the effects of diabetes means muscles run out of energy and get tired long before they should.
For me short hard exercise works best. But much depends on what you can cope with and how BG reacts.
There is no 'one size fits all' either for advice or medication, or diet, or exercise.
Just a starting point.
I want to reduce my reliance on medication, I want to get as close as I can to 'normal'.
So gradual trial and error. And keep a diary so you can see what works.
Ok. Breakfast time. Porridge today (Sunday treat) not fast, quick or packet. Just porridge oats made with water, in a pan, on a stove. Little coconut milk. Lots of soluble fibre, low GI, slow release.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

"one is giving great efforts to reduce weight with good weight loss results to help their diabetic situation, suddenly, this person t has been prescribed to take medication /insulin, which is known to cause weight increase? although efforts to reduce weight continue, as before, the weight that was dropping before, unfortunately results, weight stays the same, and or actually increases due to the medicine required"

That is 100% what happened to me. I was prescribed Rosiglitazone and within a month I had gained one stone. No change in diet or exercise, just gained one stone. Went to doctor who compounded the issue by prescribing citilapram for anxiety. Too **** right I was anxious, I was already overweight and now gaining weight. Consequently I gained weight and I didn't care. Citilapram is very good at preventing anxiety. My weight escalated to 163kgs which is about 27st, I think.

Luckily (unlucky at the same time really) my liver function deteriorated and I was taken off Rosiglitazone and the weight started to fall off, about a stone a month. After 4 months my BG had not been good, my GP reminded me not to stop eating carbs (I'm never forgiven him, not with same surgery as a result) and prescribed Gliclazide. Not only did the weight loss stop, but I gained 10kgs.

I didn't lose any more weight until I lowered my carbs to about 40gms a day, but even that "plateaued", as dieticians like to say. I haven't given up yet and currently on a low carb vegan diet Monday to Friday (loads of veg). Treating myself at weekends to things like eggs, bacon, roast beef/pork/lamb and still more veg. Even this isn't really working as well as I'd expect. Work in progress. Balancing BG has been so much easier on a VLCD so I'm happy with just that. My present GP and DN are also very supportive, so that makes my life easier as well.

 

[Jenny15]

Hello

Catch 22 situation re weight and insulin both interconnected with Diabetes 2.

Based on experts advices info, i.e.

1.
It is stressed weight is one area of great importance to aim and reduce regards Diabetes 2, no doubt also generally, in best interests of ones health, diabetic or not, this seems good medical sound advice and cannot be denied for us all.

2.
It is also advised that Insulin can in some cases, if not most, add /cause weight unfortunately?

This is where catch 22 comes in, where do we go what do we do? example...

"one is giving great efforts to reduce weight with good weight loss results to help their diabetic situation, suddenly, this person t has been prescribed to take medication /insulin, which is known to cause weight increase? although efforts to reduce weight continue, as before, the weight that was dropping before, unfortunately results, weight stays the same, and or actually increases due to the medicine required"

in cases such as this, based on fact, as weight loss vitally important re diabetes 2, and more weight gain is not preferred, yet insulin required by many, the medicine, in turn, puts on weight?

"What is the solution here, or is there a Solution for now or future regards this catch 22 situation one can find themselves in one hand trying so hard to meet targets weight loss, and then have to go to the Doctor and explain, concerns, weight stopped dropping, and actually I have put more weight on since taking Insulin, do doctors have a balance of what can be done to solution this situation, or what are doctors recommending to one when this situation is in place as guide, has anyone been guided as to what to do, if they find themselves in this unfortunate catch 22 situation?

Just a question if a solution balance is available to stay this happening or help efforts of weight loss to continue even if lesser than before? or if anyone has any feedback on this topic, which seems to be a situation for so many out there trying so hard and have had great results due to their efforts, but now find difficult to keep their results?

How does one get over this hurdle?

Are you facing this issue yourself or are you asking about T2s and insulin in general?

If the latter, I believe I answered the question in your last thread about the subject.

 

[Robin101]

A struggle for sure. One thing I am looking more closely at is that in balancing all the various systems your body relies on patterns or habits. It's VERY good at working out a response to any pattern it can identify.
Dieting is a pattern it can deal with. It kicks in what I call the 'crop failure' response and lowers your requirements for food.
Alot of recent research looks at disrupting these patterns by intermittent fasting, or meal swapping.
Low carb and low calorie for 5 days is likely to get you into low BMR and then eating a bit more at weekend is going to go the wrong way.
I am now trying 2 days VLCC, 1 day not so strict, then 3 days VLCC, 1 day relaxed eating. Just trying to mix it up and avoid patterns. Overall I'm eating the same but better weight loss.
You can go a step further and if lifestyle and BG allows mix up the daily pattern as well. Dinner at breakfast time, breakfast at dinner time etc.
I'm doing better than I was, but still a way to go

 

[pollensa]

That is 100% what happened to me. I was prescribed Rosiglitazone and within a month I had gained one stone. No change in diet or exercise, just gained one stone. Went to doctor who compounded the issue by prescribing citilapram for anxiety. Too **** right I was anxious, I was already overweight and now gaining weight. Consequently I gained weight and I didn't care. Citilapram is very good at preventing anxiety. My weight escalated to 163kgs which is about 27st, I think.

Luckily (unlucky at the same time really) my liver function deteriorated and I was taken off Rosiglitazone and the weight started to fall off, about a stone a month. After 4 months my BG had not been good, my GP reminded me not to stop eating carbs (I'm never forgiven him, not with same surgery as a result) and prescribed Gliclazide. Not only did the weight loss stop, but I gained 10kgs.

I didn't lose any more weight until I lowered my carbs to about 40gms a day, but even that "plateaued", as dieticians like to say. I haven't given up yet and currently on a low carb vegan diet Monday to Friday (loads of veg). Treating myself at weekends to things like eggs, bacon, roast beef/pork/lamb and still more veg. Even this isn't really working as well as I'd expect. Work in progress. Balancing BG has been so much easier on a VLCD so I'm happy with just that. My present GP and DN are also very supportive, so that makes my life easier as well.

Thank you for sharing your situation regards topic query, that my wonderment if anyone had experienced the catch 22 situation which unfortunately, as you confirm was yourself, and your feedback is welcoming to allow one to gain knowledge on areas that may need questions, to erase any doubt areas overall as your own experience on same. Congratulations in your approach of dealing with the situation as you have shared, both interesting and knowledgable how different individuals or experiences, and main thing is you have not given up, and lovely to hear your treating yourself too. Your sharing has allowed gained knowledge on my curiosity general thoughts on this situation. Thank you, and good luck.

 

[pollensa]

Are you facing this issue yourself or are you asking about T2s and insulin in general?

If the latter, I believe I answered the question in your last thread about the subject.

Hello to Jenny from another Jenny also, thank you for comments noted, in case of misunderstanding, again thank you for previous feedback re insulin Diabetes 1 and difference Diabetes 2 situation, appreciated. This is different topic as is referring to weight situation along with Insulin, and not to be confused with other topic which are different situation. Again, thank you for viewing and taking the time to mention. Wishing you a nice day.

 

[pollensa]

A struggle for sure. One thing I am looking more closely at is that in balancing all the various systems your body relies on patterns or habits. It's VERY good at working out a response to any pattern it can identify.
Dieting is a pattern it can deal with. It kicks in what I call the 'crop failure' response and lowers your requirements for food.
Alot of recent research looks at disrupting these patterns by intermittent fasting, or meal swapping.
Low carb and low calorie for 5 days is likely to get you into low BMR and then eating a bit more at weekend is going to go the wrong way.
I am now trying 2 days VLCC, 1 day not so strict, then 3 days VLCC, 1 day relaxed eating. Just trying to mix it up and avoid patterns. Overall I'm eating the same but better weight loss.
You can go a step further and if lifestyle and BG allows mix up the daily pattern as well. Dinner at breakfast time, breakfast at dinner time etc.
I'm doing better than I was, but still a way to go

Thank you for sharing as all or any feedback is valuable and knowledge to add a learning curve to areas of doubt, hope struggles get easier, again thank you for share, both interesting and excellently explained of how to cope. Well done to hear your doing much better, keep it up, thank you for your time interest to give shared information, appreciated. Good Luck

 

[pollensa]

You are right of course. Diabetes is a hugely complicated problem. And with so many affected / impacted systems any improvement is gradually.
Form my own personal experience, and this is just me, I have researched hugely on what my actual calorie requirements are per day. And just about every public statement I read is wrong and too high.
The body's complicated systems mean it can adjust across a wide range of calorie intakes and neutralise the effects. I am 61, 6ft tall, moderately active and 98kg. And reducing steadily. Was 120 two years back and heading for 84 as a target so I'm over halfway. Note it isn't a weight drop over a week or two - it's measured in years..
I know for a fact that at 1200cals per day I stay put. No gains, no losses. At 800 per day I lose weight. At 1600 I gain weight. And all these numbers would technically qualify as a 'diet'.
Often I see 2500 Cal's as normal and 2000 as diet. And these are just too high.
Exercise is key. Any exercise helps. But as we all know the effects of diabetes means muscles run out of energy and get tired long before they should.
For me short hard exercise works best. But much depends on what you can cope with and how BG reacts.
There is no 'one size fits all' either for advice or medication, or diet, or exercise.
Just a starting point.
I want to reduce my reliance on medication, I want to get as close as I can to 'normal'.
So gradual trial and error. And keep a diary so you can see what works.
Ok. Breakfast time. Porridge today (Sunday treat) not fast, quick or packet. Just porridge oats made with water, in a pan, on a stove. Little coconut milk. Lots of soluble fibre, low GI, slow release.

Thank you for feedback knowledge gained from it. As you say complicated, thats why so many questions pop up on many areas that the complicated situation of diabetes overall crop up. I appreciate your personal sharing re the topic most interesting. As you I find short hard exercises works best for my body too rather than one hour or 2 exercise, short bursts keep my sugars controlled popping onto the tread say for only 10 mins after breakie lunch dinner, at 6klm brisk walk works wonders yet may not result same for others. No size fits all says it all and trial and error, keeping dairy says it all, I agree.

Good luck and comments sharing have answered and gained knowledge to the topic raised. Thank you

 

[Jenny15]

Hello to Jenny from another Jenny also, thank you for comments noted, in case of misunderstanding, again thank you for previous feedback re insulin Diabetes 1 and difference Diabetes 2 situation, appreciated. This is different topic as is referring to weight situation along with Insulin, and not to be confused with other topic which are different situation. Again, thank you for viewing and taking the time to mention. Wishing you a nice day.

Hi Jenny and thanks for your good wishes. It's possible you didn't see my post that talked about T2, insulin and weight gain because it was a reply to someone else. Here it is again:

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/diabetes-2-insulin-question.149697/#post-1799143

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

Your sharing has allowed gained knowledge on my curiosity general thoughts on this situation.

You're very kind. I do have a bee in my bonnet about the whole issue. I was just saying to my wife who is using WeightWatchers to lose some weight, that she seems to be eating twice as much as I do, she always has bread/potato/rice/pasta with a meal, also seems to eat yogurt and honey at breakfast and dinner, and is still losing weight. But then she doesn't have diabetes.

One observation I have is that while several of my friends will be reminded by their GP that they need to lose a pound or two, I don't. Must be because I've gone to my GPs with my food diary and asked "why can't I lose weight". "Broken Metabolism" is about as close to an answer I'v received.

When I've looked at what hinders weight loss I found several reasons: Insulin levels, Cortisone levels, Estrogen levels, Fatty Liver (NAFL), poor sleep, stress, gut bacteria diversity. Thanks to the help of a well qualified and very good Nutritional Therapist, I've had all sorts of tests, blood, urine and things not to mention at breakfast. Apart from Gut bacteria diversity which I take pre and probiotics for, I can answer yes to all of those. I'm trying different supplements which claim to help, but it's difficult to assess a lot of the claims.

I think the U2 song "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" sums it up really.

 

[pollensa]

You're very kind. I do have a bee in my bonnet about the whole issue. I was just saying to my wife who is using WeightWatchers to lose some weight, that she seems to be eating twice as much as I do, she always has bread/potato/rice/pasta with a meal, also seems to eat yogurt and honey at breakfast and dinner, and is still losing weight. But then she doesn't have diabetes.

One observation I have is that while several of my friends will be reminded by their GP that they need to lose a pound or two, I don't. Must be because I've gone to my GPs with my food diary and asked "why can't I lose weight". "Broken Metabolism" is about as close to an answer I'v received.

When I've looked at what hinders weight loss I found several reasons: Insulin levels, Cortisone levels, Estrogen levels, Fatty Liver (NAFL), poor sleep, stress, gut bacteria diversity. Thanks to the help of a well qualified and very good Nutritional Therapist, I've had all sorts of tests, blood, urine and things not to mention at breakfast. Apart from Gut bacteria diversity which I take pre and probiotics for, I can answer yes to all of those. I'm trying different supplements which claim to help, but it's difficult to assess a lot of the claims.

I think the U2 song "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" sums it up really.

I am sure you are going to find it sooner before later, good luck.