Diabetes and Statins

[Randburg]

Hi,
As I read through the various threads, I seem to notice that when people are diagnosed, it seems to be normal that they are put on Metformin and a Statin ?
I don't know if I am correct bit I have seen a few cases,
I thought you were only put on Statin for Cholesterol problems, and I'm certain not everyone diagnosed with Diabetes has a Cholesterol problem as well ?
Please educate me someone
Thanks

 

[Bluetit1802]

You are right, statins are normally dished out when diabetes is diagnosed if the cholesterol levels are, according to the doctor, borderline or high. This is because diabetes increases your risk of cardio vascular disease significantly. In order to minimise this risk, the NHS believes it is important for diabetics to keep cholesterol levels low. That is why. (Keeping politics out of it)

 

[dawnmc]

Apart from the fact that statins can give you diabetes!!!

 

[graj0]

If the GP is following NICE guidelines on prescribing Statins, then they should do a risk assessment, there are several different calculations they can do, NICE tells GPs which calculation is best. They've gone off the Framingham calculation because that particular piece of research didn't exactly agree with what they've been trying to prove about fat and cholesterol. There was a time when anyone having a 20% chance or more, of having Cardio Vascular Disease in the next 5 years (or was it 10?) would be prescribed a statin to bring their cholesterol down. There is a move to bring that down to 10% which would actually mean a lot more people would end up being prescribed statins. Fortunately a large number of eminent doctors are saying this is wrong and have banded together to tell NICE and the Minister for Health. The NICE guidelines also say that doctors shouldn't prescribe statins if the patient doesn't want them, although from what I hear from others, like my dad, some GPs might use strong arm tactics.
I think we've now covered more than most GPs will have read about the NICE guidelines, you're probably now better informed than your GP and I haven't even started on what affects they had on me. As for the connection to diabetes, that in itself will increase the risk of CVD

 

[debbiiee]

High sugars cause derangement of cholesterol metabolism. High BG over extended period cause glycation of LDL making its uptake by receptors difficult. Thus most people have abnormal lipid profile at diagnosis & so statins ate prescribed. If sugars are maintained within normal range for months, then lipid profile reverts to normal- without statins too. U can find people following LCHF coming off statins. Normal BG is the thing behind that

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Randburg]

Thanks all, appreciate the answers.
I am from South Africa and from Diabetic friends I don't know of any that were automatically put on Statins.
We have a new Centre for Diabetes recently opened, and I am due to see one of there "Specialists" in July.
Will ask him
I'm due for a test, but my Cholesterol has been steady at about 4,3 for years, but ive gone LCHF for about 6 months, so need to check.
HbA1c is 5.5

 

[gfmoore]

I am currently reading the Great Cholesterol Con - Dr Kendrick Malcom. Another eye opening read. Just remember that billions of dollars are at stake from the drugs companies. Do you think they really really care about your health? (btw you might not like the writer's style, but his research is impeccable)

Here's a fact. One of the first statins killed more people than not being on it! Of course it was withdrawn. Didn't really help the people who died though!!!

edit: Actually I'll rephrase that. In a trial, the death rate of those on the particular statin was greater than those not on it. (As soon as I find the reference I'll add it.)

 

[graj0]

Thanks all, appreciate the answers.
I am from South Africa

Oops, never mind the UK's NICE guidelines, does S.A. have something similar? Nearly forgot, I wanted to stop taking them for a long time, there's a lot of information out there and it was difficult for me to come to a decision. Luckily low carb brought my total cholesterol down to 3.5 so I stopped taking statins 7 months ago after 17 years of grief. Cholesterol is still only 5.4, muscle pain gone, sleepless nights a thing of the past, brain fog - debatable!

 

[Randburg]

Oops, never mind the UK's NICE guidelines, does S.A. have something similar? Nearly forgot, I wanted to stop taking them for a long time, there's a lot of information out there and it was difficult for me to come to a decision. Luckily low carb brought my total cholesterol down to 3.5 so I stopped taking statins 7 months ago after 17 years of grief. Cholesterol is still only 5.4, muscle pain gone, sleepless nights a thing of the past, brain fog - debatable!

Hi
No we do not have a free medical system, we use Medical Aid Systems( If you can afford them), or go to State hospitals, where the care is pretty basic, if you can wait a long time to see someone, you still pay according to your income..
As a ex Colony of the UK, we very much follow the guidelines that you use, with some USA bits thrown in for good measure.
Medical aid schemes have to cover a list of minimum benefits, and Diabetes is one of them, so you do get some chronic items related to Diabetes ( Strips, Medication, blood tests ) "free" if you are on a medical aid scheme. BUT the medical aid costs you quite a lot for a good plan, so you are really paying in the end !
This is possibly why Statins are not included, as they are not directly related to Diabetes, and have a cost factor is what I think is the case.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

Currently in the UK seven million people are prescribed statins. Anyone with a twenty percent risk of having CV event in the next ten years are given them. NICE want to lower the risk calculation to ten percent in the next ten years which will mean another five million people on statins.

I heard that one state in the US proposed putting it in the drinking water. Worrying isn't it?

 

[mcdonagh47]

Hi,

I thought you were only put on Statin for Cholesterol problems, and I'm certain not everyone diagnosed with Diabetes has a Cholesterol problem as well ?
Please educate me someone
Thanks

the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse ride together - Type 2 Diabetes, Hypertension, Hyper-cholesterol and Obesity. They go together and exacerbate each other. Its called the Metabolic Syndrome and advocates of the Metabolic Syndrome suggest the four things are just symptoms of the deeper malaise.

Heart disease and heart attack increase significantly in the non-diabetic population at levels of Total Cholesterol of over 5. But because of the complications referred to by other posters the incidence of heart disease in Type 2 Diabetics takes off at levels over 4. So the recommendation on Cholesterol is for T2s to keep it under 4.

80% of Type 2s die of cardiovascular disease and the chances of a newly dxed T2 of having a heart attack in the first 7 years is 20%. The impact of Type 2 Diabetes on micro and macro-vascular matters is so great and damaging, that Type 2 Diabetes is effectively treated as a sub-species of heart disease.

One eminent diabetologist said that being dxed with Type 2 Diabetes is the equivalent of having had your first heart attack. Hence the aggressive treatment of high cholesterol and high blood pressure in T2s.

The total cholesterol of Hunter Gatherers is between 2.3 and 2.8 so even getting it "under 4" is still probably too high compared to what human cholesterol levels should be in our "natural state".

 

[Ruth B]

I remember my father being diagnosed with a very high cholesterol many years ago, I guess it was before statins were common. He was prescribed a powder that had to be mixed with water and taken I think it was 6 - 8 times a day, possibly more. Having a medical background himself he managed to get a report on the effectiveness of it (this was before the internet was in common usage). The report basically said that people prescribed the medicine didn't actually live longer, the cause of death just changed, normally either murder (it was done in America) or suicide.

I wasn't very old at the time so I can't remember the full details but I think statins are definitely preferable if the symptoms warrant them.

 

[hankjam]

Yikes!

In the same week I was diagnosed Type 2, no drugs, my GP took me off statins as my liver function enzymes were not good.... so it'll be interesting to see how they respond.... this is the second time I've stopped statins for liver function issues... have a call with PN on Friday morning to review blood test results.....

 

[graj0]

1) 80% of Type 2s die of cardiovascular disease and the chances of a newly dxed T2 of having a heart attack in the first 7 years is 20%. The impact of Type 2 Diabetes on micro and macro-vascular matters is so great and damaging, that Type 2 Diabetes is effectively treated as a sub-species of heart disease.

2) One eminent diabetologist said that being dxed with Type 2 Diabetes is the equivalent of having had your first heart attack. Hence the aggressive treatment of high cholesterol and high blood pressure in T2s.

3) The total cholesterol of Hunter Gatherers is between 2.3 and 2.8 so even getting it "under 4" is still probably too high compared to what human cholesterol levels should be in our "natural state".

1) The endocrinologist I saw in 1997 said that I would be dead within seven years if I didn't change my lifestyle. He didn't tell me how to change it, and I was doing the low fat thing, no biscuits, no pizza, no cake etc etc. I think I can say with a degree of confidence that . . . . hang on . . . . . yep, I'm not dead yet.

2) I'm frequently amazed at how long people live when they quite clearly pay no regard to what they eat and drink, how heavy they are etc. Seems unfair that some of us will become diabetic.

3) It's interesting that in "Evolution, Cholesterol and low fat diets" where a similar statement is made, they forgot to mention that a diet with 30% of calories is what is required .