Diabetes Reversal

For me the answer is yes. Have you seen the Newcastle Study reports. I followed something similar and have mine reversed to such an extent that I can eat a pound of sweets and my blood glucose stays normal. I didnt follow a vegan diet as your attachment suggested was required and neither did I follow a LCHF diet at the time.

In my mind (and for my body) the low calorie approach does two things: Causes the body to quickly utilise the visceral fat and also kicks the body into repair mode fixing cells that are worn out instead of replacing them in their defective condition.

andcol said:

For me the answer is yes. Have you seen the Newcastle Study reports. I followed something similar and have mine reversed to such an extent that I can eat a pound of sweets and my blood glucose stays normal. I didnt follow a vegan diet as your attachment suggested was required and neither did I follow a LCHF diet at the time.

In my mind (and for my body) the low calorie approach does two things: Causes the body to quickly utilise the visceral fat and also kicks the body into repair mode fixing cells that are worn out instead of replacing them in their defective condition.

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I kind of agree with you. The Newcastle diet certainly delivers if followed to its end. The results are awesome but it did not produce reversal (or remission) in my case, but I am not complaining. As the good Professor indicated some of us are a bit too far gone to get back to base 1. I am still working on further, but somewhat slower, weight loss and and muscle mass. I notice small but cumulative improvement - so who knows. I follow a mediterranean style of eating with a modest carb component.
I hope your glucose stays in the normal range, sounds as if you earned it.
Regards

I think, so far, the only evidence we have suggests that 'reversal' (reverting to normal glucose tolerance) is possible
- in the short term
- for a minority
- as a result of weight loss to below their 'personal fat threshold'

We have no idea what will happen to the individuals who 'reverse' in the longer term (5 or 10 years), and they must retain their weight loss below their 'personal fat threshold', which may vary over time.

There is no evidence (that I have seen) suggesting that any one method of weight loss (e.g. vegan, or 'wholefoods', or diet shakes, or Mediterranean, or LCHF) is more effective in achieving 'reversal'. The key factor seems to be visceral weight loss, and no diet is able to target that specifically.

Edited to add the last sentence.

So are we sure no over-weight (visceral fat) diabetic who has more fat than their threshold has had reversal?
I'd love to see the studies to investigate that!

I believe the 'different kind of fat' theory.
Wrong fat cells. Until those cells are killed off. I won't waiver from the belief that over our lifetime you accumulate the wrong fat cell. Some more than others. The older we get the more we accumulate.
That is why fat cell making, in the wrong way (too much carbohydrates) is the cause of diabetes. Once you make that cell it cannot be destroyed.
Gestational diabetes -hormones change the formula of the mothers fat making cell.
Hormones are an antagonist.
Woman and men get diabetes in later years. (Tired pancreas and wrong fat cells which have accumulated over the years).
Hereditary diabetes is the wrong fat making gene (thrifty gene).
Genes can mutate over evolution.

And here we are feeding our children carbs as nhs says you need them.
Like a heroine addicted person, if you stop suddenly you have further problems.
Carb addiction needs to be medically supervised and weaned off. I believe metformin and other drugs can support that.

Diabetes type 2 is stronger in people who have the most accumulated wrong fat. (Insulin resistant). If you have it a little bit you can put it in remission/reversal. Once you eat carbs, in excess to make that wrong fat cell. It cannot be destroyed and when you empty that fat cell it helps with IR but that cell is just waiting to be filled and an additional wrong fat cell is keen to be created. Over the period too many wrong fat cells prevent diabetes going into reversal. A very very difficult job.
Gastric surgery only removes the stomach size. Less carbs to be absorbed into the wrong fat. Patients with less than their wrong fat threshold can put diabetes in remission/reversal.
I have too many wrong fat cells and society advocates carb eating.
I reduce my carb intake so I create less additional wrong fat cells. I'd need help to get rid of all my wrong fat cells.
If a person only has the wrong fat cells, how would destroying wrong cells help?
I'm sure replacing good fat cells (lchf) can allow someone or something to destroy wrong cells only , leaving good cells. Which we all need.
Any sign of this treatment for type 2 diabetes? Not in my lifetime????

Predisposed gestational diabetes, would need embroys/cells cleaned of thrifty gene for decades and gene to mutate naturally after that.

This is such a great question. In the context of being in Spain, Portugal and the UK (lake district) within the last 8 weeks, I have seen that "normal" meals out tend to have 2 or more high glycemic index food types for the main (often super sized), often accompanied by a sugary drink, with desserts that may as well be granulated sugar; for a "reversed" Type 2, I think this would be unsustainable as a way of eating out. On all occasions in these geographies I have had to question and get the buy-in of serving staff to avoid sugar / honey (even in salads). I believe a "reversed" Type 2 can tolerate the occasional above modest quick release carbs, but due to education would not want to continue this in the long term.

If restaurants had for example No Added Sugar (NAS) as an option and standard, Chefs would be prepared and customers would find ordering easier. I realise I have commented on 1 aspect of eating out, but realise my contribution is getting long.

Mbaker said:

This is such a great question. In the context of being in Spain, Portugal and the UK (lake district) within the last 8 weeks, I have seen that "normal" meals out tend to have 2 or more high glycemic index food types for the main (often super sized), often accompanied by a sugary drink, with desserts that may as well be granulated sugar; for a "reversed" Type 2, I think this would be unsustainable as a way of eating out. On all occasions in these geographies I have had to question and get the buy-in of serving staff to avoid sugar / honey (even in salads). I believe a "reversed" Type 2 can tolerate the occasional above modest quick release carbs, but due to education would not want to continue this in the long term.

If restaurants had for example No Added Sugar (NAS) as an option and standard, Chefs would be prepared and customers would find ordering easier. I realise I have commented on 1 aspect of eating out, but realise my contribution is getting long.

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You make a valid point though, if someone reverses their diabetes status, they still have to maintain their reversal diet.
Like a recovering alcoholic is suseptible to falling off the wagon, a reformed diabetic is suseptible to carbs, a recovering carboholic.

I am not convinced that No Added Sugar options would help on menus. Rice, potatoes, bananas are all no added sugar foods.

Avocado Sevenfold said:

I am not convinced that No Added Sugar options would help on menus. Rice, potatoes, bananas are all no added sugar foods.

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Good point. During the course of my comment, I was thinking about how this could be expanded. If for example there was Sea Bass, vegetables and rice, or Liver and Bacon with mash, it would be great if there were a simple abbreviation that immediately would inform the kitchen to add additional vegetables or salad and not hide anything sweet to the main ingredients, whilst removing the carbs.

Mbaker said:

Good point. During the course of my comment, I was thinking about how this could be expanded. If for example there was Sea Bass, vegetables and rice, or Liver and Bacon with mash, it would be great if there were a simple abbreviation that immediately would inform the kitchen to add additional vegetables or salad and not hide anything sweet to the main ingredients, whilst removing the carbs.

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I think our best bet is to move to LA. I often see people joking on cooking programmes about how the culture there is so low carb

My nurse told me if you had diabetes for years it can't be reversed

andcol said:

For me the answer is yes. Have you seen the Newcastle Study reports. I followed something similar and have mine reversed to such an extent that I can eat a pound of sweets and my blood glucose stays normal. I didnt follow a vegan diet as your attachment suggested was required and neither did I follow a LCHF diet at the time.

In my mind (and for my body) the low calorie approach does two things: Causes the body to quickly utilise the visceral fat and also kicks the body into repair mode fixing cells that are worn out instead of replacing them in their defective condition.

Click to expand...

I wonder why some get it back again after reversal? Then a low calorie diet doesn't work!
I starved myself on weider milk shakes and did feel better for it. 5 stones better off. Then I added weight once on regular food and slowly readded that 5 stones.
I can emulate that starvation period but why when I doesn't reverse my diabetes itjust put it in remission til I eat food, solids.
It doesn't work for me. Unfortunately.
I'm delighted it works for some. I wish it worked for everyone!

I firmly believe one can slow the progress of the condition down, or even halt it from becoming worse. I also believe for some, reversal is possible, but for the majority I think we will have to wait for medical intervention, to repair the damage we can no longer fix ourselves. Personally I have reduced my weight by a quarter, so Prof. Taylor's thoughts that '15% is about right' does not apply to me. I now weigh up my options of taking my weight down even further in the hope of finding the holy grail of 'PFT' but if I do, at what point do I stop?

doug_j said:

My nurse told me if you had diabetes for years it can't be reversed

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I am not sure what "reversed" even means to be honest. I have had non-diabetic levels for 2-and-a-half years now but my nurse says it's progressive. Nurses say a lot of things. The best we can do is just do our best

Gmagembe said:

Latest research has shown diabetes type II can be reserved. This is through a low- fat, low glycemic index foods, whole foods. Several scientific evidence have indicated with this diet diabetes can be reversed.
Edit: copyright document removed by moderator

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If you have to stick to a particular dietary regime that's not what I call reversal. You might as well say that taking medication reverses diabetes.

I would like to suggest that if you can eat 250-300 gms of carbohydrate a day without medication and without your BG going all over the place then your diabetes has truly been reversed.

Iv done all diets but still get READING of 11 and 12 some times higher

I would rather say in remission .... I can eat high carbs now ... but choose not to as they make me feel yuck !!!!

doug_j said:

Iv done all diets but still get READING of 11 and 12 some times higher

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If you are concerned you could maybe start a new thread where people could offer suggestions based on your unique circumstances. You may be overlooked on this thread and miss out on advice. All the best

another reversal thread...
it's all about definitions and timelines.... these are often sadly lacking in these discussions..

I wonder why so many people home in on the possibility of reversal.
Is it because they dream of going back to eating the way they used to?

Personally I love my LCHF way of life. I love my meals. I have sustained it a long time now. My glucose levels are very well controlled, my weight dropped and remains stable after 18 months of a good BMI, my other markers are good to ideal. It was hard work initially, but is no longer hard work.
I can eat high carb food on special occasions without doing any damage to my levels but have no desire to do this daily. It wouldn't be a special occasion if I did. I look forward to these special occasions and enjoy them all the more.
I don't care a hoot if someone labels me reversed, in remission, or diabetic.