1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Diabetes Reversal

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Gmagembe, Aug 17, 2016.

?

Do you think type II diabetes can be reversed?

Poll closed Mar 17, 2017.
  1. Yes

    48.4%
  2. No

    34.4%
  3. Not sure

    17.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Gmagembe

    Gmagembe · Newbie

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Latest research has shown diabetes type II can be reserved. This is through a low- fat, low glycemic index foods, whole foods. Several scientific evidence have indicated with this diet diabetes can be reversed.


    Edit: copyright document removed by moderator
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #1 Gmagembe, Aug 17, 2016 at 1:43 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2016
  2. andcol

    andcol I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    3,176
    Likes Received:
    4,093
    Trophy Points:
    198
    For me the answer is yes. Have you seen the Newcastle Study reports. I followed something similar and have mine reversed to such an extent that I can eat a pound of sweets and my blood glucose stays normal. I didnt follow a vegan diet as your attachment suggested was required and neither did I follow a LCHF diet at the time.

    In my mind (and for my body) the low calorie approach does two things: Causes the body to quickly utilise the visceral fat and also kicks the body into repair mode fixing cells that are worn out instead of replacing them in their defective condition.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. fene48

    fene48 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    171
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I kind of agree with you. The Newcastle diet certainly delivers if followed to its end. The results are awesome but it did not produce reversal (or remission) in my case, but I am not complaining. As the good Professor indicated some of us are a bit too far gone to get back to base 1. I am still working on further, but somewhat slower, weight loss and and muscle mass. I notice small but cumulative improvement - so who knows. I follow a mediterranean style of eating with a modest carb component.
    I hope your glucose stays in the normal range, sounds as if you earned it.
    Regards
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    21,796
    Likes Received:
    35,041
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I think, so far, the only evidence we have suggests that 'reversal' (reverting to normal glucose tolerance) is possible
    - in the short term
    - for a minority
    - as a result of weight loss to below their 'personal fat threshold'

    We have no idea what will happen to the individuals who 'reverse' in the longer term (5 or 10 years), and they must retain their weight loss below their 'personal fat threshold', which may vary over time.

    There is no evidence (that I have seen) suggesting that any one method of weight loss (e.g. vegan, or 'wholefoods', or diet shakes, or Mediterranean, or LCHF) is more effective in achieving 'reversal'. The key factor seems to be visceral weight loss, and no diet is able to target that specifically.

    Edited to add the last sentence.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
    #4 Brunneria, Aug 17, 2016 at 7:55 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2016
  5. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,502
    Likes Received:
    18,400
    Trophy Points:
    298
    So are we sure no over-weight (visceral fat) diabetic who has more fat than their threshold has had reversal?
    I'd love to see the studies to investigate that!

    I believe the 'different kind of fat' theory.
    Wrong fat cells. Until those cells are killed off. I won't waiver from the belief that over our lifetime you accumulate the wrong fat cell. Some more than others. The older we get the more we accumulate.
    That is why fat cell making, in the wrong way (too much carbohydrates) is the cause of diabetes. Once you make that cell it cannot be destroyed.
    Gestational diabetes -hormones change the formula of the mothers fat making cell.
    Hormones are an antagonist.
    Woman and men get diabetes in later years. (Tired pancreas and wrong fat cells which have accumulated over the years).
    Hereditary diabetes is the wrong fat making gene (thrifty gene).
    Genes can mutate over evolution.

    And here we are feeding our children carbs as nhs says you need them.
    Like a heroine addicted person, if you stop suddenly you have further problems.
    Carb addiction needs to be medically supervised and weaned off. I believe metformin and other drugs can support that.

    Diabetes type 2 is stronger in people who have the most accumulated wrong fat. (Insulin resistant). If you have it a little bit you can put it in remission/reversal. Once you eat carbs, in excess to make that wrong fat cell. It cannot be destroyed and when you empty that fat cell it helps with IR but that cell is just waiting to be filled and an additional wrong fat cell is keen to be created. Over the period too many wrong fat cells prevent diabetes going into reversal. A very very difficult job.
    Gastric surgery only removes the stomach size. Less carbs to be absorbed into the wrong fat. Patients with less than their wrong fat threshold can put diabetes in remission/reversal.
    I have too many wrong fat cells and society advocates carb eating.
    I reduce my carb intake so I create less additional wrong fat cells. I'd need help to get rid of all my wrong fat cells.
    If a person only has the wrong fat cells, how would destroying wrong cells help?
    I'm sure replacing good fat cells (lchf) can allow someone or something to destroy wrong cells only , leaving good cells. Which we all need.
    Any sign of this treatment for type 2 diabetes? Not in my lifetime????

    Predisposed gestational diabetes, would need embroys/cells cleaned of thrifty gene for decades and gene to mutate naturally after that.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,977
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Trophy Points:
    178
    This is such a great question. In the context of being in Spain, Portugal and the UK (lake district) within the last 8 weeks, I have seen that "normal" meals out tend to have 2 or more high glycemic index food types for the main (often super sized), often accompanied by a sugary drink, with desserts that may as well be granulated sugar; for a "reversed" Type 2, I think this would be unsustainable as a way of eating out. On all occasions in these geographies I have had to question and get the buy-in of serving staff to avoid sugar / honey (even in salads). I believe a "reversed" Type 2 can tolerate the occasional above modest quick release carbs, but due to education would not want to continue this in the long term.

    If restaurants had for example No Added Sugar (NAS) as an option and standard, Chefs would be prepared and customers would find ordering easier. I realise I have commented on 1 aspect of eating out, but realise my contribution is getting long.
     
  7. Shar67

    Shar67 · Guest

    You make a valid point though, if someone reverses their diabetes status, they still have to maintain their reversal diet.
    Like a recovering alcoholic is suseptible to falling off the wagon, a reformed diabetic is suseptible to carbs, a recovering carboholic.
     
  8. I am not convinced that No Added Sugar options would help on menus. Rice, potatoes, bananas are all no added sugar foods.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,977
    Likes Received:
    8,736
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Good point. During the course of my comment, I was thinking about how this could be expanded. If for example there was Sea Bass, vegetables and rice, or Liver and Bacon with mash, it would be great if there were a simple abbreviation that immediately would inform the kitchen to add additional vegetables or salad and not hide anything sweet to the main ingredients, whilst removing the carbs.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. I think our best bet is to move to LA. I often see people joking on cooking programmes about how the culture there is so low carb :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. doug_j

    doug_j Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    33
    My nurse told me if you had diabetes for years it can't be reversed
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  12. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,502
    Likes Received:
    18,400
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I wonder why some get it back again after reversal? Then a low calorie diet doesn't work!
    I starved myself on weider milk shakes and did feel better for it. 5 stones better off. Then I added weight once on regular food and slowly readded that 5 stones.
    I can emulate that starvation period but why when I doesn't reverse my diabetes itjust put it in remission til I eat food, solids.
    It doesn't work for me. Unfortunately.
    I'm delighted it works for some. I wish it worked for everyone!
     
  13. walnut_face

    walnut_face Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,749
    Likes Received:
    5,109
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I firmly believe one can slow the progress of the condition down, or even halt it from becoming worse. I also believe for some, reversal is possible, but for the majority I think we will have to wait for medical intervention, to repair the damage we can no longer fix ourselves. Personally I have reduced my weight by a quarter, so Prof. Taylor's thoughts that '15% is about right' does not apply to me. I now weigh up my options of taking my weight down even further in the hope of finding the holy grail of 'PFT' but if I do, at what point do I stop?
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  14. I am not sure what "reversed" even means to be honest. I have had non-diabetic levels for 2-and-a-half years now but my nurse says it's progressive. Nurses say a lot of things. The best we can do is just do our best :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,259
    Likes Received:
    2,101
    Trophy Points:
    178
    If you have to stick to a particular dietary regime that's not what I call reversal. You might as well say that taking medication reverses diabetes.

    I would like to suggest that if you can eat 250-300 gms of carbohydrate a day without medication and without your BG going all over the place then your diabetes has truly been reversed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. doug_j

    doug_j Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    33
    Iv done all diets but still get READING of 11 and 12 some times higher
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Enclave

    Enclave Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    2,602
    Likes Received:
    4,616
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I would rather say in remission .... I can eat high carbs now ... but choose not to as they make me feel yuck !!!!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  18. If you are concerned you could maybe start a new thread where people could offer suggestions based on your unique circumstances. You may be overlooked on this thread and miss out on advice. All the best :)
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,492
    Likes Received:
    13,171
    Trophy Points:
    198
    another reversal thread...
    it's all about definitions and timelines.... these are often sadly lacking in these discussions..
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

    Messages:
    25,119
    Likes Received:
    30,606
    Trophy Points:
    298
    I wonder why so many people home in on the possibility of reversal.
    Is it because they dream of going back to eating the way they used to?

    Personally I love my LCHF way of life. I love my meals. I have sustained it a long time now. My glucose levels are very well controlled, my weight dropped and remains stable after 18 months of a good BMI, my other markers are good to ideal. It was hard work initially, but is no longer hard work.
    I can eat high carb food on special occasions without doing any damage to my levels but have no desire to do this daily. It wouldn't be a special occasion if I did. I look forward to these special occasions and enjoy them all the more.
    I don't care a hoot if someone labels me reversed, in remission, or diabetic.
     
    • Winner Winner x 8
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 5
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook