Apparently Prof Taylor documented somewhere the results that all the people who had emailed him or written in to him, had got when doing the Newcastle Diet at home. Some had used shakes, some real food. I'd like to read his report on their success in reversing their diabetes and how they achieved it.
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Documentation of Prof Taylor's email & postal dieters
- Thread starter Tannith
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I don't have any wisdom for you, but I would love to read the report, if you find it. I'll put a watch on your thread.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
I am not sure if this is what you mean but.
There is a paper which summarises a load of people who wrote in. It isn't a diary it is analysis of a number of people. Really interesting. I read it Tuesday night - frustrated at the continual posts that hardly anyone is successful on it - even though it is the only scientific study I can find on any reversal let alone the number who did really well.
You will find it on the University site but unfortunately it is on one of the blue links.
Most of the data can easily be found simply typing Newcastle University Diabetes into google. It is all linked from one page on the University site.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/counterpoint-study.pdf
There is a paper which summarises a load of people who wrote in. It isn't a diary it is analysis of a number of people. Really interesting. I read it Tuesday night - frustrated at the continual posts that hardly anyone is successful on it - even though it is the only scientific study I can find on any reversal let alone the number who did really well.
You will find it on the University site but unfortunately it is on one of the blue links.
Most of the data can easily be found simply typing Newcastle University Diabetes into google. It is all linked from one page on the University site.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclacuk/newcastlemagneticresonancecentre/files/counterpoint-study.pdf
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
I also found this to be most interesting indeed.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/media/wwwnclac...sonancecentre/files/pancreas-study-slides.pdf
For me, this is why I think weight loss (what ever course you take) is the most likely to help.
Chook
Expert
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I think that one's a bit beyond me....
From my own experience I know that (certainly for me) weight loss really helped. As you may know, this is my third attempt at ND (with real food) and on my second attempt I did manage to get down below my personal fat threshold - unfortunately I then stupidly re-gained some of the weight that I lost and went back above it after an accident at work and loss of mobility (not a good enough excuse but its the only one I've got).
Basically, getting below your PFT enables you to eat pretty much anything you wanted - but eating pretty much anything you want puts the weight back on.
The problem is discovering where your PFT is.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
I think that one's a bit beyond me....
From my own experience I know that (certainly for me) weight loss really helped. As you may know, this is my third attempt at ND (with real food) and on my second attempt I did manage to get down below my personal fat threshold - unfortunately I then stupidly re-gained some of the weight that I lost and went back above it after an accident at work and loss of mobility (not a good enough excuse but its the only one I've got).
Basically, getting below your PFT enables you to eat pretty much anything you wanted - but eating pretty much anything you want puts the weight back on.
That is the problem with it being a barrier you cannot see. And unlikely to be just weight but where that weight is. And very little chance I think anyone could keep it all off forever. If I ever get to the stage where I can eat whatever I want - I intend to use it very very carefully. The good thing is I really have enjoyed eating much less carbs so a way of life for me in any case.
BTW - your numbers speak for themselves - outstanding and to do this three times is quite amazing as I am still unsure I will make it through once!
Indy51
Expert
Hear, hear! A great summary of the essential problem of any starvation diet once you return to "normal" eating.Basically, getting below your PFT enables you to eat pretty much anything you wanted - but eating pretty much anything you want puts the weight back on.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
One problem at a time - I cannot cope with if the 8 weeks of hardship actually works and you have a better insulin response you have to deal with the next problem
I am going to worry about that when I get there 
Bluetit1802
Legend
One problem at a time - I cannot cope with if the 8 weeks of hardship actually works and you have a better insulin response you have to deal with the next problem
I fully understand why you think that, but you really will have to put a plan in motion before the end of your diet. Not necessarily yet, but don't leave it too late. It probably won't be problematic as you are doing so well.
Thank you very much Fleegle. Thats exactly what I was looking for.
You said:"frustrated at the continual posts that hardly anyone is successful on it - even though it is the only scientific study I can find on any reversal let alone the number who did really well." So lets prove 'em wrong! Just as the ND subjects have already done.
ickihun
Master
For me. The more times I rebounded, the worse the insulin resistance got.
So beware!
The 5:2 diet may be the maintenance for ND?
Is 5:2 where 2 days of fasting ticks you along, or something similiar?
It would have to be continueously on after 8wk ND without a break thou.
As once you refill your liver and muscles with glucogen via carbs then game over?
Metformin is a mini liver block med. I believe.
A full plan is needed in my opinion. 8wks just gives the dieter hope and inspiration to move forward with their fight with diabetes.
ND is just the tip of the iceburg of insulin resistance.
So beware!
The 5:2 diet may be the maintenance for ND?
Is 5:2 where 2 days of fasting ticks you along, or something similiar?
It would have to be continueously on after 8wk ND without a break thou.
As once you refill your liver and muscles with glucogen via carbs then game over?
Metformin is a mini liver block med. I believe.
A full plan is needed in my opinion. 8wks just gives the dieter hope and inspiration to move forward with their fight with diabetes.
ND is just the tip of the iceburg of insulin resistance.
Fleegle
Well-Known Member
I am very interested in the theory of insulin resistance and how you know whether you are not producing enough or whether your body just rejects it. I wonder - without continual insulin testing how anyone knows?
Because Prof T does not spend too long talking about IR more about a lack of insulin producing cells. And that does bother me about the research.
When you say bounce back @ickihun do you mean the times you may have put weight back on?
I do not see this as a fix - more maintenance on a very very long journey of lifestyle changes.
Because Prof T does not spend too long talking about IR more about a lack of insulin producing cells. And that does bother me about the research.
When you say bounce back @ickihun do you mean the times you may have put weight back on?
I do not see this as a fix - more maintenance on a very very long journey of lifestyle changes.
ickihun
Master
I unfortuntely know how much insulin I'm injecting and that I'm producing my own insulin too.
How do I know?
Because before and in early stages of insulin injection therapy I missed injections which was accidental but my bgs eventually changed to hypos on not eating thereafter, thinking I was compensating for high bg (due to missed inj). Type1s don't get that. They never hypo unless they have taken too much insulin injected units. A type 1 will increase their bg levels without insulin. (Unless their in the honeymoon period of their disease developing).
So.
The insulin I'm injecting is at least the measure of my insulin plus more.
On that theory I'm highly insulin resistant as I'm injecting 66units of stronger basal insulin and 60units of novarapid (bolus) and metformin, max dose.
Now.... some will be due to weight of body as insulin is always been needed per lb/kg.
So.... weight loss will reduce my insulin need.
However, that is just part of the solution.
The liver, muscles and other organ uptake of glucogen which converts to glucose on release is overwrked or overactive for me.
Metformin curbs that, a little. My insulin need is also for counteracting glucose dumping.
If I fast for a week but drink plenty of water I'm hyper, not hypo without insulin injections. So my pathway for my own insulin to work correctly is blocked. Due to obesity or fatty liver? Probables both.
Type 2 insulin resistance is a problem with the liver etc not pancreas, like type 1s.
That is why weight loss helps hugely in obese type 2s. But thin type2s have an overactive liver etc. mainly.
Just remember we are not born obese so therefore additional influences cause obesity.
ickihun
Master
I used to bounce back from my own version of remission without realising I was diabetic.
I've had symptoms since I was 6yrs old so I've done every diet known to man. Even lchf now.
At 14/15yrs old I used milkshakes and lost 7stones. My school friends were well impressed. (All girl school).
I've trained with a professional footballer and ate like a toddler over the yrs. Only when I was in burn out did I binge.
I've rebounded a few times.
Steady and stable is definitely the key.
As I'm doing now but with insulin support to stop me going blind or amputations.
I've had symptoms since I was 6yrs old so I've done every diet known to man. Even lchf now.
At 14/15yrs old I used milkshakes and lost 7stones. My school friends were well impressed. (All girl school).
I've trained with a professional footballer and ate like a toddler over the yrs. Only when I was in burn out did I binge.
I've rebounded a few times.
Steady and stable is definitely the key.
As I'm doing now but with insulin support to stop me going blind or amputations.
