Does reducing weight more slowly have the same effect of reducing blood sugar as the Newcastle diet

[maggiep]

Hi All, I have been following the forum for a few months now and read a lot about the Newcastle and The LCHF diet. I was diagnosed T2 Jan 2014 and immediately changed my eating habits and lifestyle. No more coffee and cake or sweets every day and started walking as much as possible. My weight has dropped from 97kg to 79kg and my Hba1C from 55 to 41 mmol/l at the last test in Sep 2015. I am now down to 75kg and have also partly embraced the LCHF diet. I am not actually dieting (been on many over the last 40 years or so and they didn't work) but am careful about what I eat. I don't miss all the sweet sugary snacks anymore as I really like salads and veg etc. I also eat a lot of fruit (mainly berries) and low GI carbs such as oats. Also use a lot of olive oil and spread etc. My question is: is it ok to for me carry on like this (I actually only have about another 5kg to lose for a good weight for my build) to "reverse" my diabetes or do I have to go on the low calorie diet for eight weeks to do this?

 

[britishpub]

The 8 weeks are of no significance. The idea is to lose weight and the fat around your organs.

 

[Borzoi]

In order to lose weight around the organs it requires a pretty extreme regimen. I'd tried unsuccessfully to do so over the last year with a very controlled diet and exercising 4-5 times a week but it didn't seem to accomplish what I wanted. If you have a lot of stubborn fat around your midsection, that's the main reason you would undertake the Newcastle diet.

By reducing your intake of fats, fructose and refined carbohydrates, you're giving the main organs affected (pancreas/liver) a much needed break and accelerating the shedding of visceral fat. The results seem to be much more dramatic on a short term as well.

 

[Brunneria]

It doesn't matter how fast you lose the weight (sorry @Borzoi, I totally disagree with you about that). Professor Taylor who designed the Newcastle Diet and is currently running a 5 year extended study has himself stated this.

It is the weight loss that makes the difference, not the severity or the speed of the loss. Taylor used the rapid diet shake version because it was easier to implement for the purposes of his study, and because he felt people remain motivated if they see quick results. Both reasons seem very reasonable to me!

Having said that, it is more about losing visceral fat, than subcutaneous fat, and PRofessor Taylor has seen that losing 15% of excess weight seems to be a key marker for losing the necessary visceral fat for blood glucose improvement.

But it is important to remember that any diet where food and carbs are restricted will have a lowering effect on blood glucose. No dieter will know whether they have 'reversed' their diabetes and achieved a long term improvement of their glucose tolerance until they come off the diet and establish a long term eating pattern. At that point they will discover whether their blood glucose control has improved, and what their tendency to regain the weight will be.

 

[Borzoi]

It doesn't matter how fast you lose the weight (sorry @Borzoi, I totally disagree with you about that). Professor Taylor who designed the Newcastle Diet and is currently running a 5 year extended study has himself stated this.

It is the weight loss that makes the difference, not the severity or the speed of the loss. Taylor used the rapid diet shake version because it was easier to implement for the purposes of his study, and because he felt people remain motivated if they see quick results. Both reasons seem very reasonable to me!

I might need to be more specific. Earlier in 2015 I reached a goal of 180 (12.8 stone) pounds using more traditional methods. Low carb, high protein diet and regular exercise. While it did improve my numbers, I found that it was not accomplishing anything resembling a reversal and that the gut fat was very stubborn to come off. Average A1C of 6.5 that would not maintain without heavy exercise.

About 3/4th of the way through 2015 with a tragedy in the family that deeply affected me, I put on 14 pounds (1 stone) back. When I restarted this year with the Newcastle diet I found that the more accelerated method actually gave me much more dramatic results when I reached 180 pounds (12.8 stone) again. My fasting numbers were a good 30-40 points lower (That I hadn't seen in 5 years), and additional inches had come off my waist at the same weight. Very light exercise, currently trending average A1C of 4.5.

Each person might be affected differently by the more accelerated Newcastle approach, but I felt that it has targeted trouble areas that lead to visceral fat quicker than a more conventional diet, thus the dramatically improved numbers I've been seeing as of late. Just sharing my 2 cents based off going through this process twice now. Take it as you will.

 

[AndBreathe]

In order to lose weight around the organs it requires a pretty extreme regimen. I'd tried unsuccessfully to do so over the last year with a very controlled diet and exercising 4-5 times a week but it didn't seem to accomplish what I wanted. If you have a lot of stubborn fat around your midsection, that's the main reason you would undertake the Newcastle diet.

By reducing your intake of fats, fructose and refined carbohydrates, you're giving the main organs affected (pancreas/liver) a much needed break and accelerating the shedding of visceral fat. The results seem to be much more dramatic on a short term as well.

I also disagree that the extreme rergime is required, and this is borne out by both my personal experience and correspondence with Professor Taylor where I posed the specific question about weight loss v pace of loss. His writing, available on the internet, also state this.

From my personal perspective, I seem to have achieve the ND end-point simply by reducing carbs and being conscious of moving around more. I didn't become a gym bunny, but just mindfully used my bicycle a bit more and parked further away from the supermarket exit, when shopping.

My only comment would be that the hard-hitting ND approach kick starts the de-fatting and usually leads to a rapid weight loss in it's early days, which can be encouraging feedback for those at the beginning of the process.

@maggiep - I'd say it's entirely up to you to decide if you want to ring-fence a period (albeit a relatively short one) of your life to give your liver a decent de-fatting "talking to", or whether you choose to stay on a steady course and eating plan.

I don't know how much, if any, more weight you consider you need to lose, but personally, that would possibly influence my own thinking, if I were in your shoes. How are your day-to-day bloods running these days?

 

[maggiep]

Sorry this is the first time I have used this forum and haven't quite got the hang of it.
Thanks for all the interesting comments. Still not sure how one knows if fat has gone from liver or pancreas.
I am not on medication and moved house last year and changed my doctor last May. I had the new patient check up with a nurse!
My annual retinopathy check was overdue so I visited a doctor in the new practice last week to find out about the checkup and also to see if I could continue to get an HbA1c test twice a year as I had been getting at my previous practice and secondly if I could have a BG monitor on the NHS to test my own BG. The answer to both was a polite NO. I can only get tested once a year around my birthdate and they don't supply monitors. They deal with all diabetic patients in the same way and won't make exceptions.
I attend a BP clinic annually in September (nothing to do with GP have had high BP for about 20 years, work related at the time) and they did my last HbA1C for me. I also bought my own monitor and checked for about 10 days around that time. My fasting BG was between 5.2 -5.9 depending what I'd eaten the night before or if I'd slept well. 2hours after eating between 6.5 - 8. Once it was 9.8 which was a bit worrying but only happened once. I stopped checking for a while and was going to start again about now. Am away from home at the moment and didn't take monitor with me. Will check my bloods when I get back home.
I have blood tests annually at the BP clinic and it was them that highlighted my raised BG in December 2013 and was then diagnosed diabetic in January 2014. This was the first time it had been noticed so I don't think I have had raised BG for all that long.