Dont think we will fare well out of this.......

So sorry to hear of your trials with health care, Boo1979....makes me thankful I'm in Canada! Doesn't help you, I realize, but sending you a big hug - hang in there! (Was going to say hang ten, but....) I hope that whenever you get a proper diagnosis the Docs can finally do something and the damage is repairable.Blessings/L

The thing is that it will lead to patients possibly suffering a poorer quality of life (or worse, serious illness) and ultimately cost the NHS more.

My local CCG changed the rules recently covering treatment using anaesthetic blocks. Before the changes a GP referral led to a consultant led treatment until discharge. Now a patient must be rereferred after two sessions of treatment with all the encumbent waiting times. When I last saw the consultant in charge of my care he said it was madness and that it was cruel to leave patients in pain and would ultimately see the cost of the increase of pain medications rise. He was right and he was very unhappy about it. I waited over a year for the last round of treatment and was then referred to a different hospital where I was not seen by a consultant anaesthetist, instead it was a Nurse Specialist.
These cost saving measures may result in litigations re duty of care costing the NHS even more money. We will end up with the American model, a two tier system for the haves and the have nots.

Boo1979 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/society...wer-people-to-hospital?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Think its been going on for some time tho tbh by my exterience anyway
Foot injury 9 months ago, podiatry send me to hospital for x ray
2 months later still in pain sent back to a&e for another x ray and a scan hospital reluctantly do xray but refuse anything else based on the question of who pays ( primary, secondary or tertiory care?)
Referred to gp who ignores the referral for 2-3 months then eventually refers for ultrasound (mri too expensive)
Results come back, mri needed so gp has to then refer to musculoskeletal (msk) services to see if they will do it
I then get a letter telling me to call to make appt - turns out its not an appt to be seen, just for msk service to look at the referral
Then have to have a telephone triage which decides I should have mri and referred on to imaging service
Turns out both msk and imaging serice are private companies who dont provide any face to face services within 2 out of 3 boroughs in my health area
Finally able to book an appointment to have mri in another 2 months in the 1 borough where services are offered
Better make sure I dont trip over any of the multiple hoops in the process in the interim!

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Read this earlier. It's absolutely disgraceful and likely to cost more in the medium term; part from causing unnecessary distress and suffering for patients.

Going to be a lot of people turning up at A and E then forcing them to be admitting a large number patients.

I've just been reading about that in The Times. I thought my GP's refusal to refer me for a procedure was because they had no money, not because they were giving half the cost to the GP.

The story is almost unbelievable . . . . almost. I believe GP surgery finances are supposed to be transparent. Does that mean that there won't be an entry on their books that says "Earnings from not referring patients"?

JohnEGreen said:

Going to be a lot of people turning up at A and E then forcing them to be admitting a large number patients.

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My family "forced" me to take my mum to St Peter's Hospital, Chertsey, because her shingles was so painful and her GP was doing sweet ***** Adams. I knew what was going to happen, she was seen, there was no treatment and boy oh boy did I get telling off from the doctor for "wasting" his time.

If GPs are being incentivized to not refer I think A&E doctors will not be taking up the slack.

I have several question about this whole thing. Are they saying that a GP will not refer a patient and then tell the hospital that they're not referring a patient, so the hospital will be aware, just not having to see the patient.

By the way, the Guardian reported this back in 2015.

I heard an interview with GPS yesterday and they too are pi**ed off with the new system. They’ve been turned into business managers by govt. and have to do a whole heap of things that used to be managed by central agencies. This is all reducing the time they have to spend with their primary function, being a doctor, and it’s having an impact on their well-being as well as ours.

Just been sent a petition, hope it's OK to post link.

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/c...utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2018-03-01

OK or not I've signed it.

So thats why I've been to A&E twice in one week.

JohnEGreen said:

OK or not I've signed it.

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Yes me too ..

That's a classic problem with socialized medicine: they run out of other people's money to spend. So they give you the old NHS shuffle and you get no care. Here it's the opposite, fee-for-service. First thing they do is take some X-Rays of your insurance plan then the start ordering tests and bill the beejesus out of it. And leave you with the copay of course.

CCGs are also instructing GP Practices that they should have peer reviews before referals get processed. Our GPs have done this for a long time already, but only found out last month.

So, for my instance...
Endless appointments for wrist pain... in end the overseer doctor (only from apeaking to the doctor that saw me) sent me to rheumatology...

I got hold of a top orthapaedic surgeon privately after being in pain for 5 months and saw surgeon without a letter
from doctor... he saw me for £250 and put me back thru nhs to have him for de quervains operation. 3 weeks later, all done.

Rheumatology appt came through after my op and they didnt understand why I was sent to them...

Now got ulner nerve entrapment
In both arms. got to wait 2 weeks for the report to go to GP. Then ask to see the surgeon I paid privately before for appt. i dare say the overseer doctor will refuse and I will end up paying another £250 to thengo back thru NHS for operations....

I dont want to pay privately but if you cant get past the oveseer of referals at Practices, what chance have you got? I'm lucky that despite not having private medical insurance we can afford to pay for a private appt. but what happens to people that cant afford to pay??

Peer review for medical referrals has been in for a long while at some GPs...

I dont want to jump ahead because we are able to, but I do wish to get out of pain asap.

We are still living in postcode lottery... and I think we all need to recognise that GPs are run as a business and have partners, senior partners etc.... its not a pure simple case that your GP works for the NHS....

DavidGrahamJones said:

Just been sent a petition, hope it's OK to post link.

https://speakout.38degrees.org.uk/c...utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=blast2018-03-01

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I've signed and posted it to Facebook

SueJB said:

I've signed and posted it to Facebook

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Me too.

Part of the problem is that probably 20% of the people use up 80% of the healthcare budget. But they pay in the same as the other 80% that don't use much. If something happens to what that 80% puts in the system "runs out of other people's money". Then they have to cut back or raise the payments. Like @donnellysdogs said they had to chip in some of their own money. How much do you need to pay for private insurance there? $500/month? Then can you just blow off the whole NHS shuffle entirely?

TheBigNewt said:

Part of the problem is that probably 20% of the people use up 80% of the healthcare budget. But they pay in the same as the other 80% that don't use much. If something happens to what that 80% puts in the system "runs out of other people's money". Then they have to cut back or raise the payments. Like @donnellysdogs said they had to chip in some of their own money. How much do you need to pay for private insurance there? $500/month? Then can you just blow off the whole NHS shuffle entirely?

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It is not 'Other peoples money'. We pay into a system and as long as that system is well maintained then everyone is happy. Successive governments have underfunded the system and some politicians are in favour of the American model and in recent times have endeavoured to bring this about by the back door.