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Double Diabetes???

Patch

Patch

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,981
Location
Bristol
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Insulin
What the hell? This is news to me. An insulin dependant Type 1 diabetic that becomes insulin resistant? A Type 1 Diabetic that develops age on-set (Type 2) diabetes?

More evidence that excessive consumption of carbohydrates (and trans fats?) contributes to insulin resistance.

Seems to me like age on-set diabetes can be avoided in Type 1's by limiting the amount of carbs they are eating. (This will also have the "side effect" of reducing their need for high doses of insulin).

I think a major re-think is necessary. I think that Type 1 and Type 2 Diabetes are 2 completely different diseases.

Maybe they're not as closely linked as we think?
 
Hi Patch,
Instead of being so uncharitable you ought to be pleased that it doesn't work the other way round as maybe you could have ended up with Type 1 as well as Type 2.

We are all here to help each other not telling others what their mistakes are. We need some more clarification on this rather than assume it is all to do with overeating, carbs and transfats. Some Type 1's have other autoimmune diseases and medical complaints that necessitate drugs than can cause weight gain and possibly there can be other reasons.

Catherine.
 
I was just posting on some information that was new to me.

An interesting point (I thought) is that it MIGHT work the other way around. Some sulfonylureas (used to treat Type 2 diabetes) have been shown to encourage beta cell (insulin producing cell) burnout, which may lead to Type 1 diabetes. Insulin resistant cells + injected insulin = potential for too much insulin in th esystem, leading to excess fat, maybe leading to increased insulin resistance. (Vicious cycle).

You said:
Some Type 1's have other autoimmune diseases and medical complaints that necessitate drugs than can cause weight gain and possibly there can be other reasons.
Click to expand...

If I was easily offended I'd say that you were implying that insulin resistance is caused by being overweight...

But I'm not. Lets get back to the discussion, shall we?
 
Patch,

A type 2 whose pancreas packs up and they need insulin is still a type 2 ! Just because someone needs insulin does not mean they become type one.
 
Hi Sue,
Hmmm... Type 1 is ofetn referred to as insulin dependant and Type 2 non-insulin dependant.

What's the difference between:

a) A Type 2 diabetic with a pancrease that stops producing insulin, and
b) A Type 1 diabetic that develops insulin resistance?

Seems to me like they'll both be in exactly the same boat?
 
A type one is the product of an autoimmune disease and will always be a type1 .

There are type 2's who are insulin dependent, referred to as IDDtype 2.

If, over the years they use too much insulin, it causes weight/fat gain and,just as in type 2,they can become insulin resistant. In both cases a reduction of carbs and weight loss can decrease the insulin resistance resulting in a smaller need for insulin which in turn means gaining less weight.
 
I realise all of that - it's a chicken and egg situation. I think it's a shame that we are working towards understanding what it is that causes Type 2 diabetes, and people are STILL developing it.

Double diabetes seems to me to be something that is avoidable. Maybe in the future it will be.

But for now, I suppose ignorance is bliss, eh?
 
An insulin dependant Type 1 diabetic that becomes insulin resistant? A Type 1 Diabetic that develops age on-set (Type 2) diabetes
Click to expand...
Since reasons for developing the two conditions are different it's not really surprising that some people develop both types. As with type 2 though it's not just occuring in later years, there are children and adolescents being diagnosed with hybrid or double diabetes.
(lots of info about double diabetes in links from this article.
http://www.childrenwithdiabetes.com/type2/t2_dd.htm
 
Hi, I'm a type 2 with very little insulin production because my pancreas has just about burnt out. I had tests done as I thought I may be type 1 or LADA as I'm only 37 but I tested negative for GADs which the consultant said it made me unlikely to be a type 1 and also because I have very high insulin resistance which makes it hard for the insulin I inject to be used. Understanding the science of it all has made it a lot easier for me to control as now I understand the key to it is getting the insulin resistance down.

I will always need to inject but exercise and diet will decrease the amount of insulin I need. At first I couldn't understand why an ordinary "type 1 " would just inject a small amount and I had to use a lot more but this is because they don't usually have insulin resistance. It gets really complex the more you read into it and everyone is an indiviual and we just try to control the best we can. I thought at one point because I didnt produce insulin I was type 1 but this is not the case and I will always be an insulin dependant type 2.

Thanks

Angela x
 
Patch said:
What the hell? This is news to me. An insulin dependant Type 1 diabetic that becomes insulin resistant? A Type 1 Diabetic that develops age on-set (Type 2) diabetes?

More evidence that excessive consumption of carbohydrates (and trans fats?) contributes to insulin resistance.
Click to expand...


Where is the evidence to which you refer?
 
C'mon - you don't need me to point you in the right direction! Google is your friend!
 
Hi Patch
In a person with type-2 insulin resistance, their own body becomes resistant to their own insulin, for whatever reason. Not all type-2s are overweight when diagnosed.
As for type-1s with insulin resistance; while I don't doubt that some people do suffer from it, I am concerned that many people reporting the problem will not actually be on insulin, but a synthetically produced analogue insulin.
I suffered what could be referred to as 'insulin resistance' while on Lantus. I discovered that the Lantus was causing my poor and erratic BG control and ill health, not my body, as I thought. Had I not discovered that, what was to stop a doctor diagnosing 'insulin resistance' and putting me on metformin or something similar?
I am yet to establish whether a reaction to a particular synthetic insulin drug can cause true insulin resistance. Surely it's the failure of the drug and not the body?? It's shocking to me how many people think they are on insulin, when they are in fact on analogue insulin; perhaps if doctors started to look at the problems type-1s are having with these drugs,not only with poor BG control, they would treat them accordingly instead of thinking the patients' bodys are malfunctioning. The same way if a person was having a reaction or problem with any prescribed medication or drug.
Just a thought; but I'm interested in what anyone with more knowledge has on the matter.
Jus
 
Insulin resistance is a condition in which the cells of the body become resistant to the effects of insulin, that is, the normal response to a given amount of insulin is reduced. As a result, higher levels of insulin are needed in order for insulin to have its effects.

The resistance is seen with both the body's own insulin (endogenous) and if insulin is given through injection (exogenous).
 
If it is insulin that the patient is injecting, eg natural animal insulin, then it can certainly be called insulin resistance. I do not know in the future whether I will develop a 'resistance' to animal insulin, and I'm not suggesting that people cant.
However If a type-1 becomes resistant to analogue or another syntheically produced 'insulin' is it, and should it be treated as insulin resistance? By labelling it as such, it is putting the blame, for want of a better word, on the patients' own body, and the result being more drugs to treat it; when the problem may in fact lie with the analogue or synthetic insuin itself.
Jus
 
Patch
You were being uncharitable
there are diabetics who follow the dietary guidelines of the "experts" and end up insulin resistant T1s.
Some of these people are using so much insulin, they need U500, which is 5 x concentrated. ( 500 units insulin per mm3 ), rather than the usual U100.
If they follow the advice to eat 7 - 14 portions of starchy carbs per day, is it their fault? they may not have access to the internet. Or may trust their medical advisors. I know such people.
 
Hanna
What an horrible thing to suggest, that if a T1 has the double whammy of T1 and T2, then this is their fault... Just because you have T1 diabetes doesn’t exonerate you from T2 diabetes nor any other medical condition..

Actually there are a very few T1 diabetics who use 500u insulin in this whole country, as it not licensed for general prescription, in fact it’s very difficult to get hold off, as it got to be prescribed by a consultant then it got to be sourced and imported from America for the named patient under a special import license for use.

But of cause you already know that surly all the hoards of T1 who also got T2 diabetes using 500u insulin have already told you that or I very much suspect you don’t actually know a T1 using 500u insulin, just making assumptions! But the assumption you are making are insulting all T2’s diabetics because what you are inferring is that T2 diabetics get it because they are FAT!

It’s my understanding that even though being over-weight may not be helpful to the T2, and yes for some individuals it might have played a part in their condition, tipping the scales but fundamentally they carry the T2 gene, and there are many factors that many trigger the gene into action...
 
jopar
you mistook my meaning
I didn't mean T2 was caused by T1s becoming fat, I mean that overloading the system with carbs can cause the problem. We all know fat isn't the only trigger of T2 and yes I have met people using U500 at diabetic conferences and I'm sure that there's at least one on the forum, who says they do in their sig line.
I know it's hard to get, but some folks use such huge doses of insulin they really have no option.
I was trying to show that it isn't always the person's fault as the first post in the thread implies.
Still I do know a number of people who use large doses of insulin150 units upward, who have gained huge amounts of weight. I meet LOADS of diabetics
Hana
Sorry if you were offended, it wasn't meant.
 
hanadr said:
Patch
You were being uncharitable
there are diabetics who follow the dietary guidelines of the "experts" and end up insulin resistant T1s.
Some of these people are using so much insulin, they need U500, which is 5 x concentrated. ( 500 units insulin per mm3 ), rather than the usual U100.
If they follow the advice to eat 7 - 14 portions of starchy carbs per day, is it their fault? they may not have access to the internet. Or may trust their medical advisors. I know such people.
Click to expand...

Hana

Where does the 7-14 portions of starchy carbs come from?? As a type 1 since mid 60's, I have only ever eaten no more than 6 portions per day and my weight has always been taken when attending diabetic clinics. If my weight started to soar upwards then I would get a bit of a telling off by my consultant who would want to know exactly what I had been eating and what exercise I had been doing. Since changing to basal/bolus I now eat the amount of carb that I want to eat to keep my weight at a level I want to be so use insulin appropriately.

Also, your remark about u500. You are right that it only gets given to people who are resistant to insulin but it is not freely available in the UK as Jopar states. There has to be extreme reasons for getting it such as antibodies attacking injected insulin and many other medical reasons. Also, as far as I know there are only about 35-40 people in the UK who are using it so you might if you were lucky, be able to meet one of them at a diabetic meeting.
 
The 7 - 14 portions of starchy carbs comes from a DUK booklet.
I think Dietary advice has gone backward since the 60s. My husband was diagnosed T1 in the mid 70s and most of the advice and guidance he's had over the years has been of the"eat what you fancy and take more insulin" kind. Our PCT doesn't run diabetes education.( well only for health professionals.)
Hana
 
I'm T1 diabetic diagnosed 3 years ago I'm 29. I'm overweight which has been worsened by having two babies since being diagnosed. I have insulin resistance and an underactive thyroid. I've been trying to lose weight for years and now it's even harder! I take massive amounts of insulin between 20-30 units of humilin s at meal times and 35-40 units if lantus morning and at night. I know the extra insulin is turning to fat making the resistance worse! I'm stuck in a vicious circle and am considering a gastric band as a solution.
 
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