Dr Jason Fung

One important goal of sustain carbs reduction and intermittent fasting would be to achieve ketosis. This enables the body to actually remove the fats in the body and hopefully those surrounding our impaired pancreas and liver.

But to me it appears that being in ketosis is still a step or two away from being keto-adapted. Jeff Cyr has some experience and helpful insights to this and makes good reading too

https://www.facebook.com/jeff.cyr.589/posts/450058581865342

In his recent talk at Low Carb Vail on Nutritional Ketosis, at one point Dr Stephen Phinney makes reference to a disagreement he has with Dr Fung (who gave a talk at the same conference on Fasting) - specifically they use different scientific studies regarding the loss of muscle mass during prolonged fasting/starvation. He goes into quite a bit of detail about protein needs to maintain muscle mass.

@Indy51 insightful talk. Thanks for sharing.

We all find our own heroes. I've only recently discovered Jason Fung. I subscribed to the Cape Town Low Carb Conference videos, Tim Noakes is one of my heroes - and I've only just gotten around to watching Jason Fung's presentations - but I found them worthy of merit and consideration. I believe that we are observing a turning point, how far we are from 'the tipping point', I don't know, but it feels to me as though the tide is finally turning. But even on a forum like this, dedicated to diabetes and it's management, are the Low Carbers actually a majority? I would guess not, in the big wide world we are a tiny minority, yet it seems to me so blindingly obvious. As Br Bernstein puts it 'The Law of small numbers' (or something like that, my book is back in the UK). Small quantities of carbs in, small quantities of Insulin required / excreted, far less danger. It's not really that difficult to restrict what goes in your mouth and when, we start 16 hour fasting today, hope it does wonderful things for dh's blood pressure, can't see why not!

The jury is still out for me on fasting. I am watching with interest those who are using it and I am really enjoying this thread
For me the huge potential is in the theory that fasting can start the body repairing damaged cells and creating new cells and while the science is still out there is a lot more research starting to be done in this area.

@Indy51 Thanks for that, another hero! I first did LCHF in the 80s (just to lose weight then, had no health issues). I was teaching at the school of Health Studies at the time. Although the diet worked, weight wise, stunningly well, and I enjoyed the food, I stayed on it just till I got to my goal weight, but I was totally convinced I was 'killing myself with my knife and fork'. I just didn't believe that it could be healthy!

Roll on to 2010, thanks to Phinney, Volek and Westerman writing the New Atkins New You book, then going on to read 'The Art and Science of Low Carb Living' I was finally convinced that all I had believed, and all I had taught my poor students for years, was entirely incorrect. Excellent talk, thanks for that (not that I'm planning to become an endurance athlete any time so one)!

nannoo_bird said:

of course it has to be removing carbs from my diet, but it is going to be so hard

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Well but when you replace it with succulent, tender ribeye, tenderloin, pork belly and such...it tends to get easier

AtkinsMo said:

But even on a forum like this, dedicated to diabetes and it's management, are the Low Carbers actually a majority? I would guess not, in the big wide world we are a tiny minority, yet it seems to me so blindingly obvious.!

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I think people that manage to diabetes forums are quite anxoius to know a lot about diabetes, and the general advice on this site is to eat too your meter, and go easy on the carbs, so I find that most people on here are actually lowcarb, and this is the case on the other major diabetes forums as well.

Roytaylorjasonfunglover said:

I think people that manage to diabetes forums are quite anxoius to know a lot about diabetes, and the general advice on this site is to eat too your meter, and go easy on the carbs, so I find that most people on here are actually lowcarb, and this is the case on the other major diabetes forums as well.

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It depends how you define low carb?

I am wary of claiming everything is low carb.
It gives the wrong message about low carb.
What is the eatwell plate, half the days calories from carbs?
1200 calories from carbs, or about 300g?
I've seen claims before that any diet, of any type must typically be 'low carb', as you'll reduce from the 300g.
(eg, if you did the Newcastle diet, 800 calories, even if it was 100% carbs (which it isn't), it would still be low carb, as that would be about 200g of carbs compared to 300g)

nannoo_bird said:

Yes, that sounds lovely. At home won't be so hard, but eating in restaurants is going to be another thing, BUT ... it's all about choices.

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I have found it pretty easy to be honest. In fact we went to a local gastro pub and I mentioned low carb in a meal request, within minutes the chef had come out of the kitchen and was telling me about his low carb adventures and how he had lost 3 stone doing it. From then on (we go there fairly regularly) I just ask for extra veg or mushrooms and get them no prob. Indian restaurants are tandoori cooked meats, for Chinese crispy duck without pancakes sashimi in Japanese. There are nearly always alternatives low carb options.

SunnyExpat said:

It depends how you define low carb?

I am wary of claiming everything is low carb.
It gives the wrong message about low carb.
What is the eatwell plate, half the days calories from carbs?
1200 calories from carbs, or about 300g?
I've seen claims before that any diet, of any type must typically be 'low carb', as you'll reduce from the 300g.
(eg, if you did the Newcastle diet, 800 calories, even if it was 100% carbs (which it isn't), it would still be low carb, as that would be about 200g of carbs compared to 300g)

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Yes of course these are all valid considerations. When I think lowcarb, I just figure that people cut out the major sources of carbs, bread, rice,pasta and potatoes, they also cut out most junkfoods with loads of carbs, cakes for instance, and they instead eat lots of dairy, animalsfats, meat and fish . Main source of carbs is vegetables.

And then people do their own versions. Some may eat one piece of bread, with loads of animal protein and dairy products on it, instead of 6 pieces of bread and so forth.

I also think that people that go lowcarb, do so because they belive that large amounts of carbohydrates are bad for their diabetes, and how far they go with this is one thing, but they are aware of it, and therefore they do "lowcarb". But the difference between 100 grams a day or 30 can be different, but it is still low.

nannoo_bird said:

Yes, that sounds lovely. At home won't be so hard, but eating in restaurants is going to be another thing, BUT ... it's all about choices.

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enough

nannoo_bird said:

AtkinsMo, I totally disagree with you here. To some people, food is purely a fuel, or a filler for when you are hungry. To others, like me, food is a comfort and a delight. I eat for comfort when I need to, and of course this is usually carb-related; but mostly I eat for pleasure; my husband and I love good restaurants, we avidly watch TV food programmes, we travel to foodie destinations, attend food fairs, both are avid cooks. I have to make the choice, and of course it has to be removing carbs from my diet, but it is going to be so hard.

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To be honest, I entirely AGREE with you. Food is also my passion I love good food, I have changed my definition of good food somewhat. We eat out A LOT, all over Europe. We leave Southern Spain on Monday, we are staying overnight in the Old Town in Alicante, Teruel, Soria. Logrono, and San Sebastián, then meander up through France, looking for fine dining opportunities. We are just careful with menu choices - sin pan, sin arroz, sin pasta, sin patatas - con verduras mas, por favor? Same applies in UK, sometimes we email ahead, we would like a menu with this, without that - no dessert, fine cheeseboard with celery. Low carb can absolutely be luscious and decadent. It doesn't have to be mean and meagre! We entertain a lot, I used to do 'our food' plus carbs for 'normal' people, now, as often as not, most of the carby stuff ends up in the bin. Very often now people will say, Cauli rice is fine. Are you doing the gorgeous fried cabbage with onion and garlic? Horses for courses! Love low carb food and the low carb lifestyle!