DVLA and driving licence problems.

[Craig1978]

Hi 1st time poster on here!

Has anyone here had any issues with the DVLA regarding revoking their car licence? I've had various letters from them regarding this, and from what I can see, there seems to be an issue around hypoglaecemia and 'severe' episodes.

I could go into more detail if required, but wondered if anyone has come across this, and how it was resolved?

 

[Jaylee]

Hi @Craig1978 ,

Could you elaborate? Have you had any "3rd party" intervention or "blue lighted" regarding severe episodes of hypoglyciemia..?
Basically, are you still hypo awair..

 

[Colin Crowhurst]

I am guessing it will be definitions that will be the issue here; DVLA regard "severe" episodes as REQUIRING someone else's assistance to resolve it however if you are declaring "Hypo's" that you have cured yourself they won't understand (or believe?) that. I have not had this issue and DVLA have been fine beyond an immediate 4 weeks of "don't drive"

 

[Craig1978]

I am guessing it will be definitions that will be the issue here; DVLA regard "severe" episodes as REQUIRING someone else's assistance to resolve it however if you are declaring "Hypo's" that you have cured yourself they won't understand (or believe?) that. I have not had this issue and DVLA have been fine beyond an immediate 4 weeks of "don't drive"

Thanks for this, I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have never once had a 'severe' hypo as defined by the DVLA, however I have declared low blood sugar episodes that I have had. I have total awareness of my symptoms and am able to deal with things before they really get going! I have just seen on the DVLA website also they they discount any episodes that happen at night, which many of mine are, but I need to clarify this.

 

[Craig1978]

Hi @Craig1978 ,

Could you elaborate? Have you had any "3rd party" intervention or "blue lighted" regarding severe episodes of hypoglyciemia..?
Basically, are you still hypo awair..

In all my years of Type 1, I have never needed assistance from anyone with regards to my low blood sugar. I am fully hypo aware and know exactly how to deal with things.

The only thing I am guilty of is not attending reviews regularily enough for their liking, although the reviews that I have had (including one this year) have showed everything is in order. I test glucose levels correctly too.

At the moment I am at a bit of a loss as to why the DVLA are taking this action, looks like there will be lots of phonecalls Monday morning then.

 

[Jaylee]

In all my years of Type 1, I have never needed assistance from anyone with regards to my low blood sugar. I am fully hypo aware and know exactly how to deal with things.

The only thing I am guilty of is not attending reviews regularily enough for their liking, although the reviews that I have had (including one this year) have showed everything is in order. I test glucose levels correctly too.

At the moment I am at a bit of a loss as to why the DVLA are taking this action, looks like there will be lots of phonecalls Monday morning then.

Hi,

Sorry about all the questions. I'm at a bit of a loss too.. I get the usual gubbins regarding my "legal duty" & what would happen if failure to disclose. At renewal time.
But to date? Nothing like the corespondence from DVLA you received..

Had you recently filled out & sent a DIAB1 licence renewal application form?

 

[Craig1978]

Hi,

Sorry about all the questions. I'm at a bit of a loss too.. I get the usual gubbins regarding my "legal duty" & what would happen if failure to disclose. At renewal time.
But to date? Nothing like the corespondence from DVLA you received..

Had you recently filled out & sent a DIAB1 licence renewal application form?

Well a little bit of backstory to this. This all came about because I got asked to apply for a HGV licence for my job at the start of the year. I've had 15 years of trouble free driving till now. I filled in all the relevant paperwork and had my medical, no problem so far. I then got asked to attend a medical at my current doctors, again no problem. My Doctor highlighted the fact that my annual reviews were behind, hence the current review this year. I passed the eyetest with no issues at all. I had another note on my record for non attendance of Retinal eye screening, but as I have had regular eye tests and screening done at my very good opticians, I didn't feel the need to waste anyone's time in the NHS and they were advised accordingly, although it still goes down as a 'no show'!

On the application form, which is where I think things have started to go wrong, I have stated that I have had a few hypoglycaemic episodes, non requiring intervention, but just simply cases of overexcersion maybe, that I felt coming on, and dealt with (Maybe I am being too honest and they are not actually 'episodes'). I think they have taken this too literally and think that I am regularily on the verge of collapse - which is no where even close to the case. I have fulfilled all the other requirements otherwise.

My application for the HGV licence was refused as I didn't have the required 3 months worth of Glucose readings on a relevant meter. I tried to explain to them that I hadn't set the correct date and time on my current meter as, as far as I was concerned upto the point of applying for a HGV licence, I only used the meter for my own use, and date/time to me were irrelevant, and I am under no opligation to record readings for everyday life/car driving. I accept the readings are required for HGV purposes, and otherwise there would have been no problem.

Then I recieve a letter revoking my car licence on the grounds of my poor understanding of Diabetes control and recognising symptoms of a Hypo??? Complete rubbish. The letter says that I can then reapply for my Licence provided that I have not had a Hypo requiring another persons assistance in the last three months - which I never, ever have had. I can say that I have had low blood sugar levels, as described above. There seems to be a total contradiction with the DVLA website and my letter.

Sorry for the long post, this is the situation I find myself in now, and I hope this may help people in a similar situation or anyone who has gone through similar themselves.

 

[Jaylee]

Well a little bit of backstory to this. This all came about because I got asked to apply for a HGV licence for my job at the start of the year. I've had 15 years of trouble free driving till now. I filled in all the relevant paperwork and had my medical, no problem so far. I then got asked to attend a medical at my current doctors, again no problem. My Doctor highlighted the fact that my annual reviews were behind, hence the current review this year. I passed the eyetest with no issues at all. I had another note on my record for non attendance of Retinal eye screening, but as I have had regular eye tests and screening done at my very good opticians, I didn't feel the need to waste anyone's time in the NHS and they were advised accordingly, although it still goes down as a 'no show'!

On the application form, which is where I think things have started to go wrong, I have stated that I have had a few hypoglycaemic episodes, non requiring intervention, but just simply cases of overexcersion maybe, that I felt coming on, and dealt with (Maybe I am being too honest and they are not actually 'episodes'). I think they have taken this too literally and think that I am regularily on the verge of collapse - which is no where even close to the case. I have fulfilled all the other requirements otherwise.

My application for the HGV licence was refused as I didn't have the required 3 months worth of Glucose readings on a relevant meter. I tried to explain to them that I hadn't set the correct date and time on my current meter as, as far as I was concerned upto the point of applying for a HGV licence, I only used the meter for my own use, and date/time to me were irrelevant, and I am under no opligation to record readings for everyday life/car driving. I accept the readings are required for HGV purposes, and otherwise there would have been no problem.

Then I recieve a letter revoking my car licence on the grounds of my poor understanding of Diabetes control and recognising symptoms of a Hypo??? Complete rubbish. The letter says that I can then reapply for my Licence provided that I have not had a Hypo requiring another persons assistance in the last three months - which I never, ever have had. I can say that I have had low blood sugar levels, as described above. There seems to be a total contradiction with the DVLA website and my letter.

Sorry for the long post, this is the situation I find myself in now, and I hope this may help people in a similar situation or anyone who has gone through similar themselves.

Hi,

Oddly, around 10 years ago. I was invited by my Operations manager at the time to try for an HGV licence.
& I am also fully hypo awair. Including nights.
I respectfully declined the offer. (To a very supportive manager.) Not wishing to rock the "springs" on my current driving entitlement.. Which inturn may have affected other future job prospects?

Now I agree with you that the admin at DVLA don't live our life. Though, there maybe (I belive.) a host of medical experts "advising" at DVLA too. All they are looking at is a form on a desk in an office.

Hopefully, someone else can clarify concisely where you stand on this issue...
I personally come from the standpoint of "KISS." (Keep it simple for the stupid.?) I seal all my forms that way ticking the relivant boxes without elaboration of support.


With the kindest regards & respect.
I feel your frustration. I felt I could have handled the roll, even if it was to "shunt" vehicles around the yard or cover sickness absentees...

 

[Craig1978]

Hi,

Oddly, around 10 years ago. I was invited by my Operations manager at the time to try for an HGV licence.
& I am also fully hypo awair. Including nights.
I respectfully declined the offer. (To a very supportive manager.) Not wishing to rock the "springs" on my current driving entitlement.. Which inturn may have affected other future job prospects?

Now I agree with you that the admin at DVLA don't live our life. Though, there maybe (I belive.) a host of medical experts "advising" at DVLA too. All they are looking at is a form on a desk in an office.

Hopefully, someone else can clarify concisely where you stand on this issue...
I personally come from the standpoint of "KISS." (Keep it simple for the stupid.?) I seal all my forms that way ticking the relivant boxes without elaboration of support.


With the kindest regards & respect.
I feel your frustration. I felt I could have handled the roll, even if it was to "shunt" vehicles around the yard or cover sickness absentees...

Thanks for that, I am now wishing that I had done the same, but also know how I am, so was looking forward to the opportunity!

The real stumbling block for me now, as it stands right this minute, is that I am employed as a Master Vehicle technician, so as you can imagine, a driving licence is vital. So I am stressing quite a bit at the moment, as I know myself better than anyone, and if I considered myself to be a danger, I would do something about it. Also, the wording of the letter is so patronising, and as if I have no clue as to what I am doing.

 

[Jaylee]

Thanks for that, I am now wishing that I had done the same, but also know how I am, so was looking forward to the opportunity!

The real stumbling block for me now, as it stands right this minute, is that I am employed as a Master Vehicle technician, so as you can imagine, a driving licence is vital. So I am stressing quite a bit at the moment, as I know myself better than anyone, and if I considered myself to be a danger, I would do something about it. Also, the wording of the letter is so patronising, and as if I have no clue as to what I am doing.

I seriously applaud your ambition, buddy.

The "letter.?"
Don't take it personally... It's probably a standard "template" issued from DVLA, personalised with just your name.
This can be corrected, but may take time? I worked recently with a guy in engineering. He lost his due to night seizures. (Form of Epilepsy, two episodes.) He's driving again now.

 

[Craig1978]

I seriously applaud your ambition, buddy.

The "letter.?"
Don't take it personally... It's probably a standard "template" issued from DVLA, personalised with just your name.
This can be corrected, but may take time? I worked recently with a guy in engineering. He lost his due to night seizures. (Form of Epilepsy, two episodes.) He's driving again now.

I know that there is probably some box ticking somewhere that has gone wrong, but in the real short term it doesn't help my stress levels or help 'life' in general! I need a licence to work and I am not sure the DVLA take this into account at all. I know 100% that I am no driving risk at all, and I have got a lot of travelling to do (Not with me driving) this year with my job, and this is something that I really could do without. Not that I should really say, but I can't help thinking that there are far more dangerous road users out there that can self certify safe to drive than someone in my position and awareness.

 

[DCUKMod]

Full disclosure; I'm not T1, or an insulin user, so have no personal experience of the DVLA experience.

The thing about the DVLA is they are looking at a form, with only your stark words on it - no expressions, no emotions, and they take it from there. Looking to up-change your license catgories will always bring additional scrutiny, due to the additional risks to yourself and the public.

I think as a T1 driver needing a license, whilst your meter is for your personal use, and guide, in terms of management, it might be helpful, bearing in mind this experience to also view it as one of your "tools of the trade"?

The charity, Diabetes UK do some useful advocacy packs that could be worth a read:

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/life-with-diabetes/driving/driving-licence

Their helpline allegedly has some specially skilled advisors too.

Good luck with it all.

 

[Craig1978]

The thing about the DVLA is they are looking at a form, with only your stark words on it - no expressions, no emotions, and they take it from there. Looking to up-change your license catgories will always bring additional scrutiny, due to the additional risks to yourself and the public.

I think as a T1 driver needing a license, whilst your meter is for your personal use, and guide, in terms of management, it might be helpful, bearing in mind this experience to also view it as one of your "tools of the trade"?
.

So far the DVLA have been nothing but unhelpful and unsympathetic. I have filled in the forms required in total honestly and this is what happens! Makes you wonder if honesty is the best policy!

I totally understand my responsibilities with regards to 'normal' driving, but up until this point, I don't drive for a living. I drive 10 mins to work and back everyday, then spend all day in a workshop where my actual driving duties are really just moving cars around the workplace and very short roads tests! This is why I have tested at times relevant to me and not my work, if that makes sense?

It was only through applying for the HGV licence that I was made aware of the stricter testing requirements for HGV driving, and of course I would have done so as that is relevant for drving for long periods of time.

 

[evilclive]

HGV licence - I suspect that one's going to be tricky for a few months till you've got the records, and you do need to do a lot more than you might think.
Car licence - there's a bit of potential for confusion there. You're definitely allowed to tick the "I've had a hypo" box - if you're T1D and you haven't, then there's a good chance you've not got awareness or are just running too high all the time. Some people (fortunately not you ) think it's a good idea to fib and not tick it - this isn't a good plan.
If you've had more than one hypo while awake requiring help from others, no driving. If you've got no hypo awareness, no driving. But neither of these things sound true.
Have you ticked a box you shouldn't? There's no need for text on the form - you said "I have stated that I have had a few hypoglycaemic episodes, non requiring intervention, but just simply cases of overexcersion maybe, that I felt coming on, and dealt with (Maybe I am being too honest and they are not actually 'episodes'). I think they have taken this too literally and think that I am regularily on the verge of collapse - which is no where even close to the case" - did you tick the "Severe hypo" box and try to explain it? That's a mistake, and like ticking the "I am a terrorist" box (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45678517), even if accidental, it's going to take a while to sort out. Severe = help from others. Crashing to vagueness, sweats, all the other things aren't "severe" if you got yourself out of it - that's just normal hypo in DVLA terms.
What I'd do is contact Diabetes UK. They've got people who can help with this - if there's been a mistake, they know how to work the system. The very bad news is you're not going to be allowed to drive for a while while it processes - I'd expect at least a couple of months. Which is a complete pain in the rear, and you won't be able to do the road tests or commute by car. Just as the lady in the story mentioned above had a massive amount of hassle from a simple mistake, I suspect you're going to have a lot of pain from yours, and there's no easy way out of it :-(

 

[Craig1978]

HGV licence - I suspect that one's going to be tricky for a few months till you've got the records, and you do need to do a lot more than you might think.
Car licence - there's a bit of potential for confusion there. You're definitely allowed to tick the "I've had a hypo" box - if you're T1D and you haven't, then there's a good chance you've not got awareness or are just running too high all the time. Some people (fortunately not you ) think it's a good idea to fib and not tick it - this isn't a good plan.
If you've had more than one hypo while awake requiring help from others, no driving. If you've got no hypo awareness, no driving. But neither of these things sound true.
Have you ticked a box you shouldn't? There's no need for text on the form - you said "I have stated that I have had a few hypoglycaemic episodes, non requiring intervention, but just simply cases of overexcersion maybe, that I felt coming on, and dealt with (Maybe I am being too honest and they are not actually 'episodes'). I think they have taken this too literally and think that I am regularily on the verge of collapse - which is no where even close to the case" - did you tick the "Severe hypo" box and try to explain it? That's a mistake, and like ticking the "I am a terrorist" box (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45678517), even if accidental, it's going to take a while to sort out. Severe = help from others. Crashing to vagueness, sweats, all the other things aren't "severe" if you got yourself out of it - that's just normal hypo in DVLA terms.
What I'd do is contact Diabetes UK. They've got people who can help with this - if there's been a mistake, they know how to work the system. The very bad news is you're not going to be allowed to drive for a while while it processes - I'd expect at least a couple of months. Which is a complete pain in the rear, and you won't be able to do the road tests or commute by car. Just as the lady in the story mentioned above had a massive amount of hassle from a simple mistake, I suspect you're going to have a lot of pain from yours, and there's no easy way out of it :-(

Thanks for this, I am 100% that I didn't tick any of the wrong boxes, as I went over and over the form before it was sent off. Also, I know that I didn't add any additional info to the forms, other than box ticking. This all came about after my 2nd medical at my Doctors, Now, until I have spoken to them tomorrow, I can only think that they have made a mistake by ticking the wrong box?

What I can't really understand, is that there was no mention of poor/control/understanding on my HGV refusal, only the lack of correctly dated readings. I totally understand this. Its on the car side that they have come down heavy on, and have left me at a complete loss as to why.

 

[evilclive]

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/life-with-diabetes/driving/driving-licence

Read that, and call their helpline tomorrow. The people there know what to do - it's not going to be quick, it may well have to go through a formal appeals process, but for a mistake they should be able to help you. They will be more helpful than the DVLA - a phone call with them is not going to get your licence back, it will need paperwork. A second opinion may have to be arranged if the Dr has put down that you're hypo-unaware.

I lost my licence for 9 months, for hypos while asleep. 6 months in, the rules changed so they no longer count, but it still took 3 months to get my licence back. The diabetes UK people couldn't help me, because no mistake had been made. At one point my DSN in all seriousness stated I wasn't fit to drive because I had no hypo awareness - a statement which shocked me, and probably contributed to a lack of trust I have with them. I explained that this was utter nonsense, and gave plenty of examples of why, but I'm not sure if they were responsible for filling in a form if they'd still write that I was unsafe. Fortunately this is DSN, not consultant, I have a rather better relationship with the consultant, and it's the consultant who fills in the forms, so I'm now happily driving again.

I don't drive for work, and most journeys are also with my wife, so she got to do the driving, but it was still immensely tedious and stressful, especially for her. So I have sympathy for what you're about to suffer, knowing it's going to be worse for you - I can't offer anything but the advice that it will pass. Just like 3 months on crutches for a broken hip (no driving then either...), it's **** while it's happening, but it comes to an end and life should return to normal.

Electric bike for the commute?

Re the retinal screening - do it. The NHS won't gain from your no-show, because it means missed targets and increased management. Does the optician take the photos and record them for posterity?

 

[Craig1978]

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/guide-to-diabetes/life-with-diabetes/driving/driving-licence

Read that, and call their helpline tomorrow. The people there know what to do - it's not going to be quick, it may well have to go through a formal appeals process, but for a mistake they should be able to help you. They will be more helpful than the DVLA - a phone call with them is not going to get your licence back, it will need paperwork. A second opinion may have to be arranged if the Dr has put down that you're hypo-unaware.

I lost my licence for 9 months, for hypos while asleep. 6 months in, the rules changed so they no longer count, but it still took 3 months to get my licence back. The diabetes UK people couldn't help me, because no mistake had been made. At one point my DSN in all seriousness stated I wasn't fit to drive because I had no hypo awareness - a statement which shocked me, and probably contributed to a lack of trust I have with them. I explained that this was utter nonsense, and gave plenty of examples of why, but I'm not sure if they were responsible for filling in a form if they'd still write that I was unsafe. Fortunately this is DSN, not consultant, I have a rather better relationship with the consultant, and it's the consultant who fills in the forms, so I'm now happily driving again.

I don't drive for work, and most journeys are also with my wife, so she got to do the driving, but it was still immensely tedious and stressful, especially for her. So I have sympathy for what you're about to suffer, knowing it's going to be worse for you - I can't offer anything but the advice that it will pass. Just like 3 months on crutches for a broken hip (no driving then either...), it's **** while it's happening, but it comes to an end and life should return to normal.

Electric bike for the commute?

Re the retinal screening - do it. The NHS won't gain from your no-show, because it means missed targets and increased management. Does the optician take the photos and record them for posterity?

Thanks for this advice, it is very helpful. I will definately call them tomorrow amongst other people!

I am dreading what this may mean for me in the short term. I cannot be without my licence, my wife doesn't drive and I have no immediate family close by to be able to assist. I live fairly close to my work, so I can work around that. But, I still need to drive in my job role - luckily most of this involves moving cars on Private Land, so I can still do that. It will be just the general distruption to everyday life, something they do not seem to take into account!

Electric bike is an option maybe, but not a financial one for me at the moment!

I understand about the Retinal screening, but they have always been advised in good time, so my logic was that they would give my appointment to someone else? My opticians are very good, and every eye test I have they are told about the Diabetes (Free eyetests) and take Retinal photographs and advise accordingly. These are kept on file and I curently have no issues at all.

 

[DCUKMod]

Thanks for this advice, it is very helpful. I will definately call them tomorrow amongst other people!

I am dreading what this may mean for me in the short term. I cannot be without my licence, my wife doesn't drive and I have no immediate family close by to be able to assist. I live fairly close to my work, so I can work around that. But, I still need to drive in my job role - luckily most of this involves moving cars on Private Land, so I can still do that. It will be just the general distruption to everyday life, something they do not seem to take into account!

Electric bike is an option maybe, but not a financial one for me at the moment!

I understand about the Retinal screening, but they have always been advised in good time, so my logic was that they would give my appointment to someone else? My opticians are very good, and every eye test I have they are told about the Diabetes (Free eyetests) and take Retinal photographs and advise accordingly. These are kept on file and I curently have no issues at all.

Whilst I hear the words you say, I would urge you to tick these "perfect patient" boxes for the foreseeable, to really give nobody anything to mark you down on.

Whilst you may have your tests, and the optometrist maybe top dollar, as far as your flat, factual, medical record is concerned, you do not have your standard annual diabetes retinal screening. That's how it will be viewed.

When it comes to it, it's a brief period in a day.

 

[Craig1978]

Whilst I hear the words you say, I would urge you to tick these "perfect patient" boxes for the foreseeable, to really give nobody anything to mark you down on.

Whilst you may have your tests, and the optometrist maybe top dollar, as far as your flat, factual, medical record is concerned, you do not have your standard annual diabetes retinal screening. That's how it will be viewed.

When it comes to it, it's a brief period in a day.

I realise all this now, but I genuinely thought it was the right thing to do as I felt I was killing 2 birds with one stone by having my sight test and photography done at the same time! Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Not totally sure 'non disclosure' is the right way to go either, but I understand what you are getting at!

Either way, I am in this position now, so will fight all the way, and I'll hold my hands up IF I have made a mistake, but if it turns out this lies with someone else, then heads will roll somewhere!

 

[Craig1978]

UPDATE.

After lengthy calls to the DVLA today, I have found out that the issue mainly lies with the way the DVLA have interpreted a note written on the form by my Doctor. All I need to do now is get a note from my Doctor to specifically clarify these points and that I am perfectly safe to drive and they should be happy with that.

It also appears that it is standard procedure to revoke a Licence, if like me, you have the old 'grandfathers' rights licence to drive 7.5ton trucks etc, so all you do is reapply with supporting evidence to get car entitlement back, then you have to reapply for the lorry categories separately under the stricter conditions, which I intend to do as well.

So, hopefully it's just a case of short term pain, but we are dealing with the DVLA here! Watch this space!