DVT and possible post thrombotic syndrome

ziggy_w

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Messages
3,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Diet only
Hi @briped,

Thanks for your lovely message. So glad to read that you are doing much better. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Worked late last night and was kind of pooped -- probably also due to the high level of humidity. It always seems to tire me. (I actually grew up in the north of Germany close to Denmark. There's always a slight breeze, so much more pleasant than the climate here in the west of Germany. Where in Denmark do you live?)

I sometimes wonder whether we actually get better in hospital. Lack of sleep, unsuitable meal option, and boredom definitely don't make it any better. I also requested an earlier discharge and ended up staying for only 5 days.

Based on what I have read, anything up to 7.8 mmol after meals is normal. So, your sister-in-laws blood sugars seem to be normal -- especially after a carby meal. Of course, being low carb is a whole other ball game. I rarely see anything over 6.7 mmol nowadays even half an hour or one hour after a low-carb meal. (I am bit of a nerd and actually did some statistics on my blood sugar readings for the last year and the probabality of my blood sugars exceeding 7.8 mmol is 0.00001.)

I wonder how many people really have absolutely normal blood sugar levels (i.e. staying between 3.9 mmol and 7.8 mmol at all times)? Maybe these kind of levels are only seen in young people -- between 20 and 25 years of age? My husband, who is really slim and healthy, even gets a bit higher blood sugar levels than this after consuming lots of carbs.
 

briped

Well-Known Member
Messages
947
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
Hi @briped,

Thanks for your lovely message. So glad to read that you are doing much better. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I've been awhk (away from hardware keyboard) for a couple of days. I only brought my tablet, and typing on glass tends to mess up things for me, but I'm back, looking forward to continue our great conversation :)

I am doing so much better. They say that a picture speaks more than a thousand words, so I've attached a pic of my ugly feet. Perhaps I should use that pic as my avatar? No, I'd be thrown off this forum, I'm sure. Please forgive me :hilarious: Even the scales seemed to agree, and told me -1,5 kg less than last time I consulted them.

Worked late last night and was kind of pooped -- probably also due to the high level of humidity. It always seems to tire me. (I actually grew up in the north of Germany close to Denmark. There's always a slight breeze, so much more pleasant than the climate here in the west of Germany. Where in Denmark do you live?)

I did hear that the heat was (is?) worse in Germany. Poor you. 25C is ok, but it does get uncomfortable if it goes any higher. I live in Copenhagen, but grew up in North Jutland. We've had a shower today, and expect a few more, but when I went out out on my balcony to check up on my aphids infested strawberry plants it was really hot and humid. Whereabouts do you live? Does the heat affect swelling in your leg and foot?

I sometimes wonder whether we actually get better in hospital. Lack of sleep, unsuitable meal option, and boredom definitely don't make it any better. I also requested an earlier discharge and ended up staying for only 5 days.

100% agreed! After the first couple of days or 3 I felt I'd be able to look after myself much better at home. Privacy, peace and quiet even at night and you're able to take charge of your own body and self. I live in a flat on the 4th floor (and 5th and 6th), but as long as I was able to negotiate the stairs everything would be fine.

Based on what I have read, anything up to 7.8 mmol after meals is normal. So, your sister-in-laws blood sugars seem to be normal -- especially after a carby meal. Of course, being low carb is a whole other ball game. I rarely see anything over 6.7 mmol nowadays even half an hour or one hour after a low-carb meal. (I am bit of a nerd and actually did some statistics on my blood sugar readings for the last year and the probabality of my blood sugars exceeding 7.8 mmol is 0.00001.)

Well done. I'm not nerdy like that at all, but I still like to pore over the numbers I've achieved since March 23rd. From 13.4mmol/L to an estimated 5.1. Actually, I went LC on that day, and within a couple of weeks it was down to approx. 6-7ish, but I'm no good at maths and statistics like you :)
I'm not worried about my sister in law. She told me that she'd had her BG tested recently at the hospital, so I was more curious to compare my readings with those of a non-diabetic female of similar age. I am a little more worried about my younger sister. She might be genetically up for a T2, just like me. She was brain damaged at birth due to lack of oxygen, and would not be able to do much about her eating habits without massive help from the carers in the community she lives in. I stay with her regularly, and last time I checked her FBG it was 4.9, and I was relieved, but this time it was 6.1 and the morning after 5.6. Maybe I shouldn't worry, but still I made an appointment for her GP to do a proper Hba1.

I wonder how many people really have absolutely normal blood sugar levels (i.e. staying between 3.9 mmol and 7.8 mmol at all times)? Maybe these kind of levels are only seen in young people -- between 20 and 25 years of age? My husband, who is really slim and healthy, even gets a bit higher blood sugar levels than this after consuming lots of carbs.

Well, maybe I should jab my husband's fingers every so often. I know he wouldn't mind once in a while ... He's slim too. Has no idea what it's like to be overweight, but is ever so good at accepting whatever kind of diet I'm on, and supportive too. Slim or fat, he likes me anyway. He worries that I'm not eating enough. Not because he's a 'feeder', but because he worries about my health and wellbeing. Last night we had beef patties. He had 2 with onions and potatoes, and I had one with a handful of fried green asparagus. I didn't miss the potatoes, and see no reason why he shouldn't have them.
Anyway, I suppose that young people rarely get their BG tested. I don't think I did till I was diagnosed at 44, but I'm sure I'd had T2 for years by then.
How high is your husbands BG after a carby meal?
Ok, warning!! Here's the "footage" :hilarious: My right lower leg does look a bit thicker than my left, but I think that's just the angle. feet.jpeg
 

ziggy_w

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,019
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I've been awhk (away from hardware keyboard) for a couple of days. I only brought my tablet, and typing on glass tends to mess up things for me, but I'm back, looking forward to continue our great conversation :)

I am doing so much better. They say that a picture speaks more than a thousand words, so I've attached a pic of my ugly feet. Perhaps I should use that pic as my avatar? No, I'd be thrown off this forum, I'm sure. Please forgive me :hilarious: Even the scales seemed to agree, and told me -1,5 kg less than last time I consulted them.



I did hear that the heat was (is?) worse in Germany. Poor you. 25C is ok, but it does get uncomfortable if it goes any higher. I live in Copenhagen, but grew up in North Jutland. We've had a shower today, and expect a few more, but when I went out out on my balcony to check up on my aphids infested strawberry plants it was really hot and humid. Whereabouts do you live? Does the heat affect swelling in your leg and foot?



100% agreed! After the first couple of days or 3 I felt I'd be able to look after myself much better at home. Privacy, peace and quiet even at night and you're able to take charge of your own body and self. I live in a flat on the 4th floor (and 5th and 6th), but as long as I was able to negotiate the stairs everything would be fine.



Well done. I'm not nerdy like that at all, but I still like to pore over the numbers I've achieved since March 23rd. From 13.4mmol/L to an estimated 5.1. Actually, I went LC on that day, and within a couple of weeks it was down to approx. 6-7ish, but I'm no good at maths and statistics like you :)
I'm not worried about my sister in law. She told me that she'd had her BG tested recently at the hospital, so I was more curious to compare my readings with those of a non-diabetic female of similar age. I am a little more worried about my younger sister. She might be genetically up for a T2, just like me. She was brain damaged at birth due to lack of oxygen, and would not be able to do much about her eating habits without massive help from the carers in the community she lives in. I stay with her regularly, and last time I checked her FBG it was 4.9, and I was relieved, but this time it was 6.1 and the morning after 5.6. Maybe I shouldn't worry, but still I made an appointment for her GP to do a proper Hba1.



Well, maybe I should jab my husband's fingers every so often. I know he wouldn't mind once in a while ... He's slim too. Has no idea what it's like to be overweight, but is ever so good at accepting whatever kind of diet I'm on, and supportive too. Slim or fat, he likes me anyway. He worries that I'm not eating enough. Not because he's a 'feeder', but because he worries about my health and wellbeing. Last night we had beef patties. He had 2 with onions and potatoes, and I had one with a handful of fried green asparagus. I didn't miss the potatoes, and see no reason why he shouldn't have them.
Anyway, I suppose that young people rarely get their BG tested. I don't think I did till I was diagnosed at 44, but I'm sure I'd had T2 for years by then.
How high is your husbands BG after a carby meal?
Ok, warning!! Here's the "footage" :hilarious: My right lower leg does look a bit thicker than my left, but I think that's just the angle.View attachment 26713

Hi @briped,

Your leg looks fantastic. There seems to be no sign of post-thrombotic syndrome. Mine have a few discolorations, especially around the ankle -- which I believe are due to the pressure exerted by the compression stockings. I am thinking about asking my GP if something can be done about it (I believe he indicated in the past that there were some options).

Yes, I also agree your sister-in-lows blood sugar levels seem to be fine. Does T2 run in your family too? My father, grandfather (on my father's side), my grandmother (on my mother's side) were all T2 and on insulin. My mother was probably also insulin-resistant (based on carrying most of the weight around the stomach), but was never formally diagnosed.

I have tried mentioning it to my sister, but she doesn't really want to know. It felt as if she was sticking her fingers in her ears and singing la-la-la-la. I am keeping my fingers crossed for her, though, and hope that the bucket will pass her by.

It is good that you are so proactive about your sister. Catching it early is half of the battle and, if T2 rears its head, she might be able to get back to normal level relatively quickly.

I only tested my hubby once, half an hour after a tuna-fish pizza and a small bottle of coke. It was about 8.0 -- which I would be happy with after such a carby meal. Since I have started measuring blood sugar levels a little more than a year ago, I have been scared though to indulge in more than just a very small amount of carbs (been on a low carb diet for 3 yrs though). I am certain that my levels would be stratospheric if not.

Really well done on reducing your blood sugar levels by that much. Being on this forum, this seems to almost normal, but in the real world, I am sure this is quite rare. So congrats on all your hard work. Since when have you been low carb?

This week is quite hot in Germany -- the weekend and almost the entire week, we had around 30 degrees and plenty of humidity. It's come on quite early this year. My legs swell a little bit with this weather, but not too much. Compared to South Carolina, where I spent five years -- this is nothing, though.

Jutland is quite close to where I grew up -- we even spent our summer vacation there once when I was a kid. Really, really beautiful -- I miss it. Copenhagen, of course, is a big city and much more exciting -- I have to admit I am a bit of a big city girl myself. I work in Cologne and live in Wuppertal, a city which is about 50 km away from where I work. I enjoy living and working here, people are open and friendly, and it's only a short way to Belgium and the Netherlands.

You mentioned you had strawberries on your balcony, do you grow a lot of your own foodstuff?
 

briped

Well-Known Member
Messages
947
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
Hi @briped,

Your leg looks fantastic. There seems to be no sign of post-thrombotic syndrome. Mine have a few discolorations, especially around the ankle -- which I believe are due to the pressure exerted by the compression stockings. I am thinking about asking my GP if something can be done about it (I believe he indicated in the past that there were some options).

Thanks :) They look even better today. I can actually clearly see the blue veins on top of my feet, and the tendons running from my big toes. Everything is back to normal. I'm surprised there's no discoloration. My mum had ankles that were more or less purple, and my younger sister too, and neither of them ever had a DVT. In her younger years my mother weighed 90kgs to her 160cm, and I believe my younger sister is bigger than me, poor thing. Maybe it's hereditary, and that's one of my mum's more unfortunate genes I've missed?
Those compression stockings must be very tight. I hope you can get something done about it if it bothers you ...?

Yes, I also agree your sister-in-lows blood sugar levels seem to be fine. Does T2 run in your family too? My father, grandfather (on my father's side), my grandmother (on my mother's side) were all T2 and on insulin. My mother was probably also insulin-resistant (based on carrying most of the weight around the stomach), but was never formally diagnosed.

I have tried mentioning it to my sister, but she doesn't really want to know. It felt as if she was sticking her fingers in her ears and singing la-la-la-la. I am keeping my fingers crossed for her, though, and hope that the bucket will pass her by.

It is good that you are so proactive about your sister. Catching it early is half of the battle and, if T2 rears its head, she might be able to get back to normal level relatively quickly.

Well, it does. I know my maternal grandfather had it, and died from a diabetes related heart attack when I was about 6. My mother also had a tendency for raised BG levels, but she hated being big, and lost a lot of weight, which probably saved her from T2. It didn't save her from the vascular dementia that killed her in the end, though. Her sister died from embolisms when she was only 50something. Younger than I am now. Everybody in her family tended to be overweight or more, and the same for my dad's family - apart from 2 half siblings my paternal grandmother had before meeting my grandfather. They were the only slim contribution to the family, so thanks both grandads :angelic:
I really do hope my sister's bloodtest will come back with a non-diabetic result. When I reacted a bit negatively at her 6.1 FBG she became a little scared. I had to go "Oh look at me, sweetie, I've had it for years, and I look fine, don't I?", flashing the happiest of smiles at her. I did tell her a little about eating smaller portions of potatoes etc. etc, but with her I'm never sure how much she understands, and it's very important to keep any dietary changes realistic.
I do hope it passes your sister by too. How old is she? Is she overweight?

I only tested my hubby once, half an hour after a tuna-fish pizza and a small bottle of coke. It was about 8.0 -- which I would be happy with after such a carby meal. Since I have started measuring blood sugar levels a little more than a year ago, I have been scared though to indulge in more than just a very small amount of carbs (been on a low carb diet for 3 yrs though). I am certain that my levels would be stratospheric if not.

Well, today my BGs have behaved very erratically, even if I haven't strayed from the straight and narrow. Very unfair, and I can't fathom why! Last night post prandial and before bed (same thing, we eat late), namely 4.9% All was well, I had a good nights sleep, and woke up at 6AM to 6.2! Oh well, stuff happens. 6 hours later, and I still hadn't had anything to eat, but 4 mugs of tea with a little whipping cream, I did a pre prandial and it went 7.1!!!:mad: I tested again, but once more it went 7.1!!! :mad: I couldn't work out any sensible reason, but remembered that I'd opened a new bar of soap and washed my hands with it before testing, so I took the meter with me downstairs to the kitchen zink and washed my hands in a different kind of soap. 6.7! Realised I'd forgotten to take my 500mg of metformin, 1.8mg Victoza and 10 mg Jardiance. Popped the pills and 2 hours after eating 2 small oopsies it went 6.2. My readings haven't been this high for many weeks. I really don't get it, but it's not very encouraging. I was hoping to manage my T2 without meds just like you, and congratulations :happy:, but after today I believe it's early days yet. Better keep fighting those kgs off, and then perhaps ...
I've been low-carbing since the end of March, hey look :happy: I wrote lots of tedious stuff in my sig.

This week is quite hot in Germany -- the weekend and almost the entire week, we had around 30 degrees and plenty of humidity. It's come on quite early this year. My legs swell a little bit with this weather, but not too much. Compared to South Carolina, where I spent five years -- this is nothing, though.

I've never been across the pond, but SC must be really hot this time of the year. Unbearably hot. I went to the south of India (Chennai) one May, and when I got off the plane I thought the heat was caused but the slip stream of the still running jet-engine, but no:eek: After a few days my feet resembled hot air balloons, and then the strangest thing happened. One evening I was strolling home when suddenly I felt waves of pins and needles in both my feet. Not painful or anything, but waves. Really hard to describe, and the next morning they were back to normal.
What did you do in SC?

Jutland is quite close to where I grew up -- we even spent our summer vacation there once when I was a kid. Really, really beautiful -- I miss it. Copenhagen, of course, is a big city and much more exciting -- I have to admit I am a bit of a big city girl myself. I work in Cologne and live in Wuppertal, a city which is about 50 km away from where I work. I enjoy living and working here, people are open and friendly, and it's only a short way to Belgium and the Netherlands.

Did you go to the west coast of Jutland? I love the north west coast of Jutland. It's so wild, all the dunes, villages and the down to earth people. I miss it too. I hope you met friendly locals? Cologne is beautiful, isn't it? I should visit Germany more often, but like everybody else I am mostly familiar with Berlin. Great place. I wish my German was better. I understand it quite well, but am terrible at speaking it.
In about '66 my mum and dad took us to Schwarzwald, and we camped high up somewhere with a beautiful view. I was only 5-6 years old, but remember that camp site quite well. We learned how to buy a fizzy drink in German, and the people in the kiosk were very friendly towards us :) Also I remember passing Hamborg on our way there, and seem to remember there were still ruins 20 years after the end of the war. Will we ever learn? :(

You mentioned you had strawberries on your balcony, do you grow a lot of your own foodstuff?
Ha ha, no, not really. I think I went a little 'balcony-broody' and sowed chili, bell peppers, coriander, cherry tomatoes and a type of mint called anisop. Balcony-broody because I see everyone else getting their new large balconies right now, but we aren't due til November o_O And since my strawberry plants became infested I daren't move my baby plants outside, or they'll be infested too. We have two balconies. One facing north. Nothing will grow there, except for ants, and one tiny one facing south. That one is going to be enlarged, hence my broodiness :)altaner.jpeg
 

briped

Well-Known Member
Messages
947
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
Compression stockings are difficult for diabetics because of how tight they are at the top, how they can promote foot cramping in some people, and because some are made with latex

I was wondering about that too. I've been reading this thread about socalled diabetic socks, and how they're looser around the top and have no seams. If loose is good how come compression socks are good too, according to the DVT docs?

Why is latex bad, unless you're allergic, of course?

Anyway, my feet and lower legs are back to normal - for now. I do tend to keep them elevated for about an hour in the afternoon, but I'm not sure that's what made the difference. Like I wrote earlier, I can't find a pattern :)
 

briped

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947
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Type 2
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people suggesting you wear compression are never diabetic

I suppose not, but they are healthcare professionals, shouldn't they know better? It must be a question of weighing the pros against cons as well as habitual thinking on their part.

The compression socks are standard treatment after two DVTs, and they did act a bit miffed when I turned them down, but I, stupid patient, chose to take my chances.
 

briped

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Messages
947
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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The docs and nurses are following protocols that they have sometimes never tested. I particularly took to the diabetic dietician I saw who greeted me with a stack of plastic containers to teach me, a mother of three and long time cook, with the concept of portion control, and a hard plastic plate with half its diameter filled with bread and starch. On a corner of her desk was her white bread single slice of bologna sandwich, her sugary chocolate iced "nutrition bar" and a couple of mandarin oranges. I fled, never to return to that particular practice again. The front waiting room offered free sodas. The rest of the practice could have been ok but how could I go to an endocrinologist who had hired such a dietician and made seeing that dietician a requirement for seeing the endocrinologist??

Isn't it amazing, and your story is all too common. Did you confront her? I think it's so very condescending to treat adults - or even children like that. When I was diagnosed they referred me to a dietician too, but I declined and said that I was more in need of a psychologist, who could tell me why I kept eating the foods I knew were bad for me. Now I know, but that's thanks to this forum. Oh I am a bad girl. I turned that down too!:angelic:
 

briped

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Messages
947
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
I didn't get a chance to really confront her. I just started laughing and had a hard time stopping and after I got control of the laughing, could only say "Really?! Really?" and point to the containers. She said "Oh, yes, and I can get you a set of these. They are color coded!" whereupon I started laughing like a hyena again and pointed to her lunch. The dietary notes I had brought to the visit that day went back into my backpack, I put on my jacket, got my co-pay in cash out of my wallet, and tried to check out in another room. They would not take my cash and insisted on billing me. A month later, I got a bill for my co-pay plus ten cents for being "late". I sent the co-pay without the ten cents" I later got a call from a billing company for the ten cents teeling me that my overdue medical bill would affect my credit rating.

After writing this post and remembering how bad that office was, I found it, lo three years later, on Yelp - still open, still with the same star cast of characters with 2 stars out of ten. Many of the posts on Yelp say something to the effect of "If I could give them negative stars, I would." And evidently, they double bill, bill for services not rendered, are still handing out sugar sodas (and diet cokes, now it seems) in the waiting room, and still have the same insulting dude handling the billing and the appointments. I am so grateful that I didn't give them a second try.

Wow! Just wow! Laughing your head of was a much better response than confronting her, I'm sure. I'm glad you got out of there in a hurry without the colour coded containers, and I hope you found a better place to take your business.
Thanks for sharing that hilarious story, even if I'm sure it wasn't hilarious at the time. You do have a way with words :D Did you ever pay the 10 cents?
 
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I suspect that's why my right foot and leg is more swollen than my left. I had a DVT in 2015 and again in 2016, because some stupid doc took me of my Xarelto (blood thinner). Anyway, vain me absolutely refused to have anything to do with compression socks. That's something my dad wears at 85, but not me. I was sure that I'd never hear from my ex-thrombotic leg again, but now I'm not so sure.
I'm still not keen on wearing compression socks - or socks at all, for that matter. I know you lot can't give me any medical advice on this, but I'd like to hear if anybody else has had DVT and/or post thrombotic syndrome, and have managed to at least stop the progression by doing exercises aimed at this affliction?
My aim is to get rid of the swelling.
I know that DVT may not be directly related to diabetes, but quite a few of us get it anyway, so I'd appreciate to hear from anybody experienced with this.


My daughter has just been diagnosed with a blood clot 5/6 days after giving birth to my new granddaughter, C-section. My daughter is having blood thinning injections and will have a ct scan and x-ray today, she was also diagnosed with gestational diabetes, so a bit of a worrying time at the moment.

Good luck.
 

briped

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Messages
947
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Non-insulin injectable medication (incretin mimetics)
My daughter has just been diagnosed with a blood clot 5/6 days after giving birth to my new granddaughter, C-section. My daughter is having blood thinning injections and will have a ct scan and x-ray today, she was also diagnosed with gestational diabetes, so a bit of a worrying time at the moment.

Good luck.
Congratulations on your new granddaughter. 3 and 2½ years ago I had two DVTs, one of which wandered to my lungs. I was and am being treated with Xarelto (blood thinning tablets) for the rest of my life, but am absolutely fine today. I was worried that my refusal to wear compression stockings might have caused my right lower leg some damage, and it does tend to be thicker than my left when they both swell up, but the swelling does come down again and everything looks dandy. My heart has been ultrasound scanned and examined in all sorts of ways, but no damage was done.
I hold my fingers crossed that your daughter gets through this with flying colours too. I just wanted to tell you that the chances of that are probably good, and try not to worry:) It sounds as if she's in good hands. How is she today? Too happy with her daughter to think much about it, I hope.
 
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Congratulations on your new granddaughter. 3 and 2½ years ago I had two DVTs, one of which wandered to my lungs. I was and am being treated with Xarelto (blood thinning tablets) for the rest of my life, but am absolutely fine today. I was worried that my refusal to wear compression stockings might have caused my right lower leg some damage, and it does tend to be thicker than my left when they both swell up, but the swelling does come down again and everything looks dandy. My heart has been ultrasound scanned and examined in all sorts of ways, but no damage was done.
I hold my fingers crossed that your daughter gets through this with flying colours too. I just wanted to tell you that the chances of that are probably good, and try not to worry:) It sounds as if she's in good hands. How is she today? Too happy with her daughter to think much about it, I hope.

Thank you for your encouraging words, it's an exciting time with a new baby and I am sure my daughter will recover well., as you said, she is in good hands and receiving treatment.
I wish you well, take care.
 

satindoll

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My daughter has just been diagnosed with a blood clot 5/6 days after giving birth to my new granddaughter, C-section. My daughter is having blood thinning injections and will have a ct scan and x-ray today, she was also diagnosed with gestational diabetes, so a bit of a worrying time at the moment.

Good luck.

Sorry to hear this Robs..........love and hugs to you all.....xxxxxx