Eat More Fruit!

[Ka-Mon]

I always believed that the whole idea of low carbing was to keep your pre-meal (as well as post-meals of course) at the same level as non-diabetics. So if I am not mistaken your pre-meal levels should never be in the 5's or 6's? Could you please tell me if I misunderstood the whole concept of low-carbing

Patch can explain the other bit of his post himself but average pre prandial readings taken for non diabetics in a recent study fell between 5 .1 and 5.6 (median 5.3) Obviously some individuals would have had levels below 5, but the norm was most definitely in the 5s.

Real-life glycaemic profiles in non-diabetic individuals with low fasting glucose and normal HbA1c: the A1C-Derived Average Glucose (ADAG) study
http://www.springerlink.com/content/a55l12337v273511/

Thank you very much for that phoenix, really useful information. It confirms the tests I did on non-diabetics (family, friends etc.) almost exactly. It also confirms, to me anyway, no idea how others might think about it, that as diabetics our BG levels does not have to be as low as in the 4's as others very loudly (and sometimes rudely) tried very hard to make us believe. :wink:

 

[Erin]

But protein, though mainly found in meats and dairy products having the advantage of a low bg as well as a nutritious meal, also have the disadvantage of kidney strain, which is maybe the number one diabetes-related risk disease.

 

[alaska]

I'm not disagreeing as such but would like to share my personal take on it.

Unless kidney damage has started to take hold, I can't see that non-excessive levels should put strain on the kidneys.

What I believe will damage the kidneys is damage to the micro-blood vessels in the kidneys caused by manufactured chemicals in the food we eat. The preservatives in meats are one of the worries for me and so I make a point of picking meats with the least additives.

Further to my theory is that I feel high blood glucose levels exacerbate the problem of micro-blood vessel damage rather than being the root cause of the problems.

This is purely a theory based on my knowledge to date.

also wish to add, I've seen nothing to suggest that protein on its own should be damaging for people with healthy kidneys.

 

[catherinecherub]

It's all about moderation. If you are going to eat excessive amounts of protein then you need frequent kidney testing.
As for processed meats, you can keep them. They taste like I imagine plastic would and have a high water content and a profusion of chemicals I buy a gammon joint and cook it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7574547.stm

 

[Ka-Mon]

Ka-Mon - I've cut n' pasted this from a previous post:

My theory, is that my body can deal with one of incidents of high (ish) carb intakes much better than it can deal with a contstant bombardment of carb intake at low/moderate levels.

Think of it as my body storing up the ability/strength/energy (but don't get energy confused with calories!) to deal with carbs on the odd ocassion. But if it is bombarded with carbs daily, it does not have the time to recover between bouts, and my BG creeps up.

I don't know about anyone else Patch but in my own experience I don't have the same problem as you and my longest lasting "spikes" do recover by the next meal time. Most of the time though, that is if I don't overeat of course, if I start with a 5/6 pre-meal I end up around the same level (give or take 0.5 to 1mmol) post-meal, sometimes even lower than pre-meal numbers, just depends on what I eat of course and my activities after eating. Quite a few times I started with around 6 and ended up (around 6 again 2 hours after the meal) in the 4's before my next meal around 4-5 hours later and that even though I do "bambard" my body 4 times a day and 24/7.

A spike never fully recovers back to normal pre-carb levels,

Sorry, have to disagree with you there Patch, this is exactly where the saying "we are all different" comes in to play. Yours, and maybe quite a few other diabetics spike might not fully recover but there are diabetics whose will and does recover fully. Thankfully I am one of those fortunate ones.

and the next low (ish) intake of carbs causes another spike, with the original spike only half recovered. Now, these spikes may not even push my BG up by more than 1mmol, but if it only recovers by 0.5mmol before the next small spike, the Cumulative Effect starts to take hold.

The Cumulative Carb Effect. (Copyright: Patch 2011).

May not be of interest to many - but being aware of this has definitely helped me, and may help others.

So, if I understood you correctly, if your levels are low ( in the 4s/5's) and you eat (for arguments sake) 50g of carbs, your BG might go up by 3mmol but if your BG level is above (say around 6/7) and you eat t he same 50g of carbs then your BG will go up more than 3mmol, maybe by 4/5 or 6?

Did I get that right? If yes than again I have to say that I don't have that problem. Most of the time I "spike" only because I eat more than I need. So here again, "we are all different" in that that some of us produce more insulin and can "stomach" (pan intended) more carbs than others who are not so fortunate and do not produce enough insulin.

 

[Patch]

I'm not saying it'll be relevant to everyone - but reading about it might be a bit of a light switch moment for someone here. Someone that maybe hasn't progressed onto meds/insulin yet, and wants to keep it that way.

We ARE all different...

 

[Ka-Mon]

I'm not saying it'll be relevant to everyone - but reading about it might be a bit of a light switch moment for someone here. Someone that maybe hasn't progressed onto meds/insulin yet, and wants to keep it that way.

For some it may never come to that even if they do eat carbs but for others it may, unfortunately.

I don't know your background Patch so can I ask how or why you progressed to insulin dependent T2?

We ARE all different...

We seems to agree on one thing at last. :lol:

 

[Erin]

The big mystery for me is what kills the beta cells? Endocrinologists must be working on this. I imagine it might be age, drugs, or virus. Age is probably high up there in the culprit lis -- at least for D2t. When your hair goes grey, or you develop athritis, it's not such a big deal, but it is just as causally significant as something that really causes you distress.

 

[Ka-Mon]

Recent "rumor" is that it is a virus but then I ask myself why only some of the children of diabetics become diabetics themselves and not all. There are no known diabetics in my family, not even distant ones as far as I know, but out of 6 siblings I am the only one who has diabetes. My mum became a diabetic after a surgery about 10/12 years ago.

Whatever is causing it I hope they find a cure for it in our lifetime, I want to be able to eat whatever I want whenever I want again. That's one of my "Bucket List" wishes. :lol:

 

[Erin]

Genetics are statistical groups for any trait, even sex. I got diabetes after 2 flues that floored me for 6 months. I then got bronchitis. I was really sick and going through a traumatic life experience. I'm also taking a med which i think made pre-diabetic and with some genetic proclivity, all in all the flu H1N1 i think was the last straw. Strange thing is that I feel so much better after being treated and having diabetes now. These metabolic diseases are almost as difficult as mental illness to understand.

 

[chrysanthy]

I just know that apple is not fit for night. it means that taking an apple at night is not good for our health and many fruit can nor be eaten when you are hungry.