Endocrinologist Said...type 2 Can Be Cured

[KK123]

Not quite the same surely.
If you as a Type1 were to drop the insulin you would be very ill... possibly dead.
If I as a Type 2 went back to my old ways of eating i'd simply be stupid.

Bulkbiker, of course, I was trying to make a point that in either case (which are different) reverting back to 'normal' would make both types ill.

 

[bulkbiker]

Bulkbiker, of course, I was trying to make a point that in either case (which are different) reverting back to 'normal' would make both types ill.

As you say the conditions are completely different thus trying to make comparisons between "in remission" is a bit daft to be honest.
If a Type 1 has a succesful pancreas transplant which leads to beta cell regeneration then I guess they would be "in remission" @Grant_Vicat I'm assuming you would say so?
Maybe in the case of Daniel Darkes you could say he's in remission too.

For Type 2's remission is feasible by dietary change (maybe with minimal medication) so is a completely different thing. Mainly because the two conditions have completely different causes even if they share a name.

 

[KK123]

As you say the conditions are completely different thus trying to make comparisons between "in remission" is a bit daft to be honest.
If a Type 1 has a succesful pancreas transplant which leads to beta cell regeneration then I guess they would be "in remission" @Grant_Vicat I'm assuming you would say so?
Maybe in the case of Daniel Darkes you could say he's in remission too.

For Type 2's remission is feasible by dietary change (maybe with minimal medication) so is a completely different thing. Mainly because the two conditions have completely different causes even if they share a name.

Well I have been called daft before!

 

[ringi]

The Newcastle diet studies show that if we lost most of the fat from the liver and the little fact that is in the pancreas both our insulin resistance and the beta cells themselves can return to being normal. This results in the normal blood glucose response to a meal that contains carbs but clearly if we regain the fat on the liver and the pancreas we regain type 2 diabetes.

(It is also possible to get normal blood glucose levels without losing the fat from the pancreas by limiting the amount of carbs we eat, this can give the same a1c result as someone who has lost the fat from the pancreas.) They called this concept the "personal fat threshold," that each person has a level of fat that if they go over they get type 2 diabetes but that level can be very different for each person so one person could be 40 stone and not get type 2 diabetes but another person could get type 2 diabetes when they are 11 stone just by gaining a few pounds.

It gets interesting with low carb as by limiting the carbs we could both get normal BG without our beta cells recovering and also lose weight and maybe enable our beta cells to recover.

 

[Grant_Vicat]

As you say the conditions are completely different thus trying to make comparisons between "in remission" is a bit daft to be honest.
If a Type 1 has a succesful pancreas transplant which leads to beta cell regeneration then I guess they would be "in remission" @Grant_Vicat I'm assuming you would say so?
Maybe in the case of Daniel Darkes you could say he's in remission too.

For Type 2's remission is feasible by dietary change (maybe with minimal medication) so is a completely different thing. Mainly because the two conditions have completely different causes even if they share a name.

hi @bulkbiker I think remission is exactly the right term. The Forum constantly reminds us that a pancreas transplant is not a cure. Although I understand the reasons, I feel cured. But remission allows for the fact that transplants may not last, as in the case of at least one unfortunate lady on the Forum.
PS Have you ventured into the Channel over the last two weeks? I can conjure up the exact atmosphere near the Church of the Good Shepherd even from the middle of East Anglia! Regards

 

[bulkbiker]

Have you ventured into the Channel over the last two weeks

I'm afraid I was spoiled by the Med a couple of weeks ago.. not been in the Channel so far this year...

 

[Brunneria]

It still flabberghasts me that anyone could consider an HbA1c result of 47 as being anything other than almost full blown T2.
Claiming it is remission or reversal is about as accurate as claiming that that car is in reverse when in fact it is creeping forwards in 1st gear.

I mean, medicated or not, a test result like that shows your body isn't coping with your carb intake and if you don't do something (weight loss, meds, reducing carb intake, exercise in spades - take your pick) then you are in trouble.

the www.bloodsugar101.com website presents plenty of evidence that any HbA1c over 42 is a consequence of reaching damaging blood glucose levels on a regular basis, with ongoing damage to beta cells and progressive development of further glucose intolerance. It may not be officially labelled T2 until the score reaches 48, but that doesn't mean it is clear of insulin resistance and increased risk of diabetic complications.

 

[DCUKMod]

Actually, a diabetic friend of mine (in Leeds, where the CCG seems to have an abundant amount of cash. I'm seriously thinking of relocating) just had a gastric bypass. She had to "follow a special diet" for three weeks before hand to "shrink the liver", but when I looked over the sheet she'd been given, it was very clearly a very-low-carb diet.

She was plunged (as we know and see all too often) into an immediate state of keto flu, couldn't keep warm, couldn't stay awake. But even before the operation, her Hba1c was the lowest it had ever been in 15 years, her liver had shrunk "to normal size" and she'd lost 3 clothes sizes.

This was just run-of-the-mill NHS treatment and, I have to admit, I was impressed. It was nice to be able to explain to her what was happening in her body, why the diet was working and how to ease the keto flu symptoms.

Now, 3 months along, she's lost 6 sizes, her energy is back, her arthritic pain has significantly lessened, she's still off the carbs (though less rigidly so), and her consultant predicts she may never have symptoms of diabetes again.

Honestly, given the option and having seen what it's done for her, I'd leap at the chance for surgery.

Forr me, @SockFiddler bariatric surgery would be very much the last chance saloon. I have known one person for whom the surrgery was life transformational, twice. Once when they lost all their weight, and the second time when they regained it all.

It's amazing what can be liquidised, and how easily melted ice-cream helps the naughty stuff slip down.

Of course, that doesn't cover the potential complications either.

The online link to the gaphic is here: https://www.bmj.com/content/bmj/suppl/2016/03/10/bmj.i945.DC1/moom024533.ww1_default.pdf

I hope your fiend continues to thrive.

 

[Hiitsme]

The recent comment I saw on Twitter was the following:

View attachment 27450

But this is just agreed between 2 people. I don't think there are any guidelines. If there are then I would love to know.

 

[DCUKMod]

But this is just agreed between 2 people. I don't think there are any guidelines. If there are then I would love to know.

I made no comment on my own views on this, but do bear in mind the statement, although taken from Twitter, is part of a BMJ article, as annotated at the bottom of the snip:

 

[MrsGruffy]

I find it amazing that the pre-requisite for bariatric surgery is often 4 weeks on something like optifast - one of those meal replacement shake diets. If you can do 4 weeks of optifast, you have shown that you can stick to a very, very strict and limited diet. I had lapband surgery 15 or more years ago. I certainly lost weight, mainly due to regurgitating pretty much everything I ate that wasn't porridge consistency. I also developed a B12 deficiency and terrible reflux. The lapband is still in place, but I had all the saline removed about 5 years after the surgery, because of the side effects. Of course, then I could eat normally again, and I gained back all the weight and 10 kg bonus weight. I think in years to come, people of the future are going to be shocked that we resorted to such barbaric measures in the pursuit of weight loss. I'm just relieved that I opted for a more reversible option. I'd like to get the band out of my body, but there's no chance they'll do that in the public system unless it's an emergency, and I don't have the resources to have it done privately, so I'm stuck with it until something ruptures or whatever happens at the end of the lapband's lifespan.

 

[Hiitsme]

I made no comment on my own views on this, but do bear in mind the statement, although taken from Twitter, is part of a BMJ article, as annotated at the bottom of the snip:

Thank you but as I'm not a BMA member I can't access full content