EU - In or Out + Poll.

[zand]

@zand you are politicalizing my statement which was just a plain fact. If you are unhappy then that's just tough.

What saying 'be sure you know why you are voting' is politicizing your statement? I would have thought that was common sense.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Indeed they are, and all this tearing apart will make matters worse. Everyone must now unite, and I include Nicola Sturgeon in this.

I agree, Nicola Sturgeon always had the option for a referendum on devolution, and if that's what the majority want, she should unite behind the scots she represents, call the referendum, and accept what her people tell her to do, just like the english must do.

 

[eddie1968]

What saying 'be sure you know why you are voting' is politicizing your statement? I would have thought that was common sense.

I was referring to your words quote "we are all on the losing side", which is an opinion therefore political and not factual as my OP.

 

[SunnyExpat]

What saying 'be sure you know why you are voting' is politicizing your statement? I would have thought that was common sense.

It would seem the majority found out on Friday what they were voting for, even Boris unfortunately.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I agree, Nicola Sturgeon always had the option for a referendum on devolution, and if that's what the majority want, she should unite behind the scots she represents, call the referendum, and accept what her people tell her to do, just like the english must do.

Are you saying she should call a second referendum? Your post is confusing.

 

[SunnyExpat]

What I would like to know is just where are all our talented youth are going to go?
Greece? Youth unemployment 49%, but if they got a job all would be well because they wouldn't need to pay any tax. The Greeks are not known for doing this.
Spain? Youth unemployment 45%
France? Youth unemployment nearly 25%
Italy? youth unemployment 39%,
Portugal it is 30%
Belgium 25%
Ireland and Poland 20%
The average across the whole EU is over 19%

Great Britain is 13%

Or maybe they would go to the USA, Canada, Australia or New Zealand and be out of Europe anyway.

It really is time to stop complaining. The vote is over. It was electorally fair in that it was a straight yes/no. No constituency voting, no proportional representation. It is time to stop the sour grapes and pull together, not tear apart.

I think that may be due to the uk having a variety of 'training' and 'education' schemes. It is very difficult to be classed as unemployed (and drawing benefits) as a youth.

 

[catherinecherub]

I thought this was an interesting summary, whether you voted stay or leave.
http://www.digbylordjones.com/well-my-friends....a-brave-new-morning.html

The ordinary Brit has looked the Global Establishment Elite (be they from politics, business, trades unions or the media) squarely in the face and said "my democratic freedom is not for sale".

At the last, that is what yesterday was all about. The ability to elect and/or kick out those who make the rules that affect our lives and a revolution against the patronising "Nanny Knows Best" brigade. From Trades Unions to Big Business, from overseas leaders promising "punishment" and "isolation" to domestic politicians in their Westminster Bubble so far removed from the woman or man in the street it is almost painful to watch, they have been told democracy is not for sale to threats of economic Armageddon.

Memo to those who seek to govern: if you patronise electorates for over forty years, deny them a say and tell them there isn't a problem, don't be surprised when, at the first opportunity, they tell you the Emperor has no clothes and they give you a bloody nose!

My feeling of joy, the sense of freedom that is coursing through me, is tempered to an enormous extent with a sense of responsibility. Ŵe must all now make the most of our new freedom. ................................................

This is what he said before the referendum,

http://www.digbylordjones.com/i-understand-your-concerns-but.html

There are few sights more likely to stoke up the feeling amongst the UK Electorate that they "have had enough", that they "are being ignored", that "no-one understands nor cares" than a fully paid-up member of the Establishment Elite, be he or she a politician cosy in their London constituency or expenses-paid Westminster office, or a CEO or Chairman of Big Business cosy in assured Route One access and influence to those who make the rules, or a TUC grandee nestling into Transport House's comfort zone (let alone an unaccountable, unelected Brussels Panjandrum threatening "punishment" or being "cut adrift") patronisingly, in a "there there" sort of way, saying that they understand about fears around immigration, about the disconnect between the representatives and the represented, about loss of sovereignty BUT..............

The "but" is never followed by an answer; there is no solution proffered, no meaningful reform put forward, just a "you don't know what's good for you and we do" response. "Just put up with it" is what faces people and they see no way out......and that is what next Thursday is all about.

It is no surprise therefore when, given their only chance to answer back for some 40 years, so many people vote for the underdog, vote for the little man, relish giving the Pompous Preachers from the Establishment a good kicking.

No answers, no solutions ......just a "we know best" attitude, and the carpet-bombing of Project Fear (especially when coming out of the mouths of overseas politicians) just stokes that particular fire.

If the Nation votes next Thursday to Remain I fear that the Establishment will just heave a collective sigh of relief, that the EU leaders and the Vested Interests that connect with them will quietly reflect that "we got away with that one" and life will return to the norm:- 520 million people being led by the nose, in Asia's Century, backwards to an uncompetitive environment which will be incapable of generating the wealth to provide the healthcare, the welfare and the pensions for our grandchildren. ........................................

 

[SunnyExpat]

Are you saying she should call a second referendum? Your post is confusing.

I think if the scottish want independence, and to have their country back, control over their own borders, the right to spend money on their health service, etc, we must surely be in agreement with the principle of a remain/leave vote now?

 

[Cragwood]

Were they let down?
I read somewhere that more than 70% of the older generation voted, but only 45-50% of the young did.
Would the outcome have been different if 70+% of the young had voted?

I have no idea if the outcome would have been different, I honestly don't know if those percentages of voters are correct. The problem is that it's not like a general election where you can accept the outcome, knowing that in 5 years time you can vote again. Look what happened to the Lib Dems last time in reaction to their consensus government with the Tories. This time it's for good and affects a whole generation. Unfortunately the generation who will have to live with it are largely the ones who voted remain.

 

[Cragwood]

What I would like to know is just where are all our talented youth are going to go?
Greece? Youth unemployment 49%, but if they got a job all would be well because they wouldn't need to pay any tax. The Greeks are not known for doing this.
Spain? Youth unemployment 45%
France? Youth unemployment nearly 25%
Italy? youth unemployment 39%,
Portugal it is 30%
Belgium 25%
Ireland and Poland 20%
The average across the whole EU is over 19%

Great Britain is 13%

Or maybe they would go to the USA, Canada, Australia or New Zealand and be out of Europe anyway.

It really is time to stop complaining. The vote is over. It was electorally fair in that it was a straight yes/no. No constituency voting, no proportional representation. It is time to stop the sour grapes and pull together, not tear apart.

New Zealand and Canada seem like favourites. As I said above the problem is that it's not like a general election where you get to vote again in 5 years time, it has an impact for a whole generation.

 

[SunnyExpat]

New Zealand and Canada seem like favourites. As I said above the problem is that it's not like a general election where you get to vote again in 5 years time, it has an impact for a whole generation.

I think you have to consider the type of unemployed youth in the countries, and question which youths will be staying, and which youths will be leaving.

 

[eddie1968]

In response to @catherinecherub's post in my own personal opinion the ordinary working class man/woman out there turned out and voted with their gut opinions and with the high turnout the "silent majority" factor came into play. I have read a lot of posts on DCUK over the years and on this thread the majority voted in the DCUK poll to remain and most of the posts were pro-remain. Sometimes I think the DCUK forum doesn't accurately reflect real demographics. Some people can't afford Internet/computers etc and some elderly people do not engage online as much as the younger population. This is my own person opinion and should be taken as such - I might be wrong though !

 

[Cragwood]

I think you have to consider the type of unemployed youth in the countries, and question which youths will be staying, and which youths will be leaving.

It's the educated university graduates who are probably more mobile and sought after by Canada and NZ

 

[SunnyExpat]

It's the educated university graduates who are probably more mobile and sought after by Canada and NZ

I know a fair few whose kids are already looking at transferring from english universities to scottish ones, if the course has over two years left, and other's that are planning to emigrate now when they finish, some to the EU, some to Canada.
I am seriously considering moving my UK address over the border into scotland as well.

 

[zand]

In response to @catherinecherub's post in my own person opinion the ordinary working class man/woman out there turned out and voted with their gut opinions and with the high turnout the "silent majority" factor came into play. I have read a lot of posts on DCUK over the years and on this thread the majority voted in the DCUK poll to remain and most of the posts were pro-remain. Sometimes I think the DCUK forum doesn't accurately reflect real demographics. Some people can't afford Internet/computers etc and some elderly people do not engage online as much as the younger population. This is my own person opinion and should be taken as such - I might be wrong though !

Exactly that! They voted with their gut, when it's their brains they should have been using. So many people have said that. My own initial gut instinct was to vote leave. Over the last year or so I have changed my view. This was a decision for the head to make, not the heart/gut. Crazy. We've all had enough time to think about this very important decision but sadly some are just happy to put their cross in any box as the whim takes them. I include people from both camps in this. I'm sure many voted remain without thinking it through properly too. Is that all democracy means to some people?

 

[eddie1968]

Exactly that! They voted with their gut, when it's their brains they should have been using. So many people have said that. My own initial gut instinct was to vote leave. Over the last year or so I have changed my view. This was a decision for the head to make, not the heart/gut. Crazy. We've all had enough time to think about this very important decision but sadly some are just happy to put their cross in any box as the whim takes them. I include people from both camps in this. I'm sure many voted remain without thinking it through properly too. Is that all democracy means to some people?

@zand I feel sorry for you if that's the best argument you've got - it's no longer worthy of further engagement, you are typically twisting my words, taking my quotes out of context and can't maintain mature and sensible debate.

 

[debrasue]

@zand you are politicalizing my statement which was just a plain fact. If you are unhappy then that's just tough.

Hey - grumpy-bum! She said you were right in abstaining. The rest of her post referred to her views, which may or may not have been political, but had nothing to do with your personal decision not to vote.

 

[debrasue]

I think you have to consider the type of unemployed youth in the countries, and question which youths will be staying, and which youths will be leaving.

... and whether Canada and New Zealand will want them!

 

[eddie1968]

Hey - grumpy-bum! She said you were right in abstaining. The rest of her post referred to her views, which may or may not have been political, but had nothing to do with your personal decision not to vote.

Yes @debrasue, I am not happy with my words being quoted out of context, that's unfair. Her post I was referring to was a political statement in saying we are all sorry for the vote - those who voted leave might actually disagree and are not sorry. This is not some personal vendetta against @zand, I usually like her posts and just think me being assertive is not a bad thing to be. Grumpy now 5/10 from 7/10 lol

 

[SunnyExpat]

... and whether Canada and New Zealand will want them!

Well, there doesn't seem to have been a problem so far, an influx of the more educated people out of the youth of the uk doesn't seem a bad thing to some.