Even well controlled diabetics develop complications?

Over controlled? It maybe the case that some people with well controlled diabetes will get some kind of complication but it is less likely if your are well controlled as opposed to to carrying on regardless - he should be thankful that you are putting the effort in. Comments like this from a 'professional' makes me mad.

I had similar comment recently from a doc. He said he'd seen some diabetic patients with rotten control have no complications and some with brilliant control who GOT complications.He reckons it's all in the lap of the Gods. I'd rather play it safe and do my utmost to minimise those risks and i daresay a doc. WITH diabetes would the same.

I have been consistently told that the way to minimise complications is good control.

hanadr said:

I was told this by our GP this morning, I took T1 husband to see him, because he's not improving as he should be.
GP said local diabetic educator is at loggerheads with me. ( I've never met the woman) and I am over controlled.and if everyone was like me, the NHS would be bankrupt. All I cost is 2 sets of blood tests, 1 set of eye checks per year and my Metformin and some blood pressure medicines.
I told him they'd save on complications. So he said that even well controlled diabetics develop complications.
I don't know where he gets his information, but that just doesn't make sense. If it were true, those conditions which are called diabetic complications, would be called something else, because they would happen randomly to anyone.
It's all down to what constitutes GOOD CONTROL.
Bernstein is right, nothing less than non-diabetic levels( however achieved) is GOOD CONTROL

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I'm fully with you on all that hanadr.

On Wednesday, I saw a DSN ( the first one that I've ever met over the nine years since I was diagnosed) as part of an education group that I managed to get to by self-referral. They were still giving out all the same old messages - and advising new patients who were in a much more advanced state than me should not test more than once a day. However, when I stated that in my opinion that my GP (who recommends that I do not test) would test if he was in my position and also recommend that his family members and friends would test - and test more than once a day - she agreed completely. She added that she would too!

Stick with it!


How we are supposed to attain good control without testing heaven only knows!

In modern speak if you do "Risk Analysis and or Risk Assessment ",and even if you take steps and action plans etc, it wont guarantee to stop complications. It does however lengthen the odds quite a lot. Surely that is the point.

Stay lucky
Dave P

I have the Bernstein book and the Jenny Ruhl book Bloodsugar 101. I have found both very helpful, although because Bernstien is a T1, I tend to give more weight to Jenny Ruhl because as a T2 I think her experience is more relevant to me. She goes on at length about the "toxic myths" your doctor probaly believes :|

This may be the place to share one of my doctor jokes with you...

What is the difference between god and a doctor..........









.... God doesn't think he's a doctor :lol: :lol: :lol:

Medicine is not the precise science we'd like it to be. Many people believe all that public relations hype about medicine, so what happens is that they accept the doctor's word as gospel and don't ask the questions they'd like to know the answers to (including what are my test results and can you explain what they actually mean, what are the risks of the treatment you are proposing and are there any alternatives to it) or accept the evidence of their own experience. Add to that the amount of information the average GP has to assimilate each week and you find out why they may not be quite up to date... :|

I have a science degree and I can make sense of medical speak. I work with doctors and other health professionals, so I don't generally feel intimidated and know how to ask questions. But I have come to understand that I'm not normal in this respect :roll: :wink: I don't think most patients ask enough questions of their health professionals or challenge their opinions.

What people tend to forget is that doctors are also people. It is so easy to dress a prejudice or belief up as a fact when you are a doctor and it carries so much more influence because you are a doctor.

One of the most useful things I learned from the NCT when I attended their pregnacy classes 13 years ago was this - BRAN
Benefits - what are the benefits of the treatment you propose?
Risk - what are the risks?
Alternatives - are there any alternatives?
Nothing - what happens if I do nothing?

I started asking questions of my doctors using the BRAN questions and now also ask why someone has said what they have said and ask for the evidence they have used to come to that opinion.

Although I have also experienced medical put-downs when I have done this, it can be quite threatening to have a patient ask questions. I had gestational diabetes when I was pregant in 1997, I knew what I was monitoring and asked if I had gestational diabetes, the consultant's response was to say "you're a sharp one, aren't you?" rather than answer my question or give me any more direct inforamtion :evil: :cry: I missed the clinic appointment I was due to attend to get the results of the monitoring we'd been doing - I went in to labour a month early. Interstingly, I eventually got them 8 years later (4 years ago), when I contacted my GP surgery to find out why they'd invited me to the diabetic clinic my GP runs :roll:

hanadr said:

I think It's the definition of Good Control, which is at issue.
I follow Bernstein's line that double the non-diabetic BG is NOT good Control

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I can't remember exactly what Dr Bernstein recommends - is it around 6 maximum?

At the time that I read his book, his target seemed impossible to attain. However, with what I have learnt recently, I think that I will be able to get there.

However, my current 'good control' targets are as follows:

- Before meals - 5.5
- 1 hour after eating - 6.5
- 2 hours after eating - 5.5

These levels were recommended to me by Alan in Australia - you'll find his blog here:

http://loraldiabetes.blogspot.com/2006/ ... comes.html

I've a lot of time for Alan's approach as regards my own situation. Perhaps you will be aware of him already but I can't remember whether he posts on this particular forum. From what he says, it sounds as though he's very similar to me - a Type 2 who can tolerate less carbohydrate in the morning compared with later in the day.

I'm not quite there yet - but I've not done fairly well today with 7.2 maximum 30 minutes after eating - actual results were:

- Before meals - 4.8
- 1 hour after eating - 7.2, 6.9 and 5.9
- 2 hours after eating - 5.3

I thought that I'd got there when I reached an HbA1c of 5.5% a couple of months ago. However, it really is amazing me as to how much more I am achieving and I feel that I've only just started.

What your doctor actually means is that with the control you demonstrate you won't be dying early, which he sees financially as a disadvantage. They'll be wasting money treating you for more years and paying out your pension which he could be given to spend on a new Lexus.

It's all statistics, you can do everything right and die young, you can do everything wrong and survive to a great age. But you're more likely to succeed if you play the cards you've been given.