SunnyExpat
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 2,230
- Type of diabetes
- Prefer not to say
- Treatment type
- Tablets (oral)
Couldn't agree more.
I didn't think anyone was suggesting diet alone was fine. I thought the point being made was that losing weight by exercise alone is very difficult so it's best to combine it with diet. Obviously exercise has additional benefits apart from weight loss, and particularly relevant to type 2 diabetics is the improvements in insulin resistance and HbA1c.
Low carbing tends to make you physiologically insulin resistant.
So, you low carb, and your body protects itself by shutting down normal pathways for your muscles to use glucose.
When you exercise, if you increase your heartrate, or sweat, or any other physiological sign of exertion, you naturally release glycogen stored in the liver. (Even low carb produces a store). You can't use it, so your BG spikes as your muscles don't use it as it was intended.
I don't low carb to that degree, as I want to use my liver.
If I miss a few meals, or work hard, or play hard, or exercise, I depend on my liver dump. I'm not insulin resistant, either physiologically or type 2 anymore, so I don't spike any more than a 'normal' person.
My BG doesn't dip, as my liver dumps, and it doesn't peak, as my muscles use it.
So, when I exercise, I can double, or treble, my resting heart rate, indeed, I try to, and my BG is better for it.
what level do you mean by low carb? 50g a day, 75g, 100g?
and what level of low carbing do you use so I can follow your example.
I still dont know what level you mean by low carb, in your comments on its effect on insulin resistance during exercise. I dont know what your definition of low carb is so i can see if i am doing that level or not.
You said: Low carbing tends to make you physiologically insulin resistant.
I would like to know what amount of carbs you are referring to so I can be higher than that
I
But if you are seeing a rise when exercising, the trade off will be against what you are like when you're not if you do decide to eat more carbs.
sorry, I simply dont understand, so will bow out until I have the back knowledge to understand all this.
I always like the stark comparison from Phinney et al.....
Our bodies at best store the equivalent of 1600-2000 cal worth of Glucogen....
Our bodies, even with a lean athlete of just 10% body fat holds 40,000 cal of fat...
20 x more and in Ketosis your body can continue to access the fat store for days with no requirement to carb load
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Possibly it's better for endurance, but different for cardio or resistance workout.
There was a good link from another thread, to a targeted ketogenic diet, which recognised the reality of 'hitting the wall', and formulated a strategy to overcome it.
http://ketogains.com/2015/10/the-ketogains-tkd-targeted-ketogenic-diet-protocol/
I do wonder about the impact on ketosis... The author says drop out is "transient" at best, but does not support that with anything Empirical.
I'll dig into this a little more.... Interesting
Sorry, no. I do know though that the Eat Less Run More myth has been buried alongside the Calorie In Calorie Out myth.A while back there was a similar article showing that age makes quite a difference.
Once you get past a certain age (40? 50?), exercise alone won't do it, but diet alone will. Although exercise is, of course, of great benefit in many ways. Sorry, haven't kept the link, and I have no memory of where it came from. I will flag @Totto because I believe she was involved in the discussion and may remember the article.
If anyone DOES have the link I would love to read the article/study again. And this time I WILL keep the link. I get rather tired of the Energiser Bunnies telling everyone that everything, including World Peace, can be solved by a good workout.
I do wonder about the impact on ketosis... The author says drop out is "transient" at best, but does not support that with anything Empirical.
I'll dig into this a little more.... Interesting
Diagnosed 13/4/16: T2, no meds, HbA1c 53, FBG 12.6, Trigs 3.6, HDL .75, LDL 4.0, BP 169/95, 13st 8lbs, waist 34" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").
2/6/16: FBG AV 4.6, Trigs 1.5, HDL 2.0, LDL 3.0, BP 120/72, 11st 11lbs, waist 30" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").
Regime: 20g LCHF, run 1 mile daily, weekly fasting.
5/6/16: Two BP readings now 112/64 & 112/66
I still dont know what level you mean by low carb, in your comments on its effect on insulin resistance during exercise. I dont know what your definition of low carb is so i can see if i am doing that level or not.
You said: Low carbing tends to make you physiologically insulin resistant.
I would like to know what amount of carbs you are referring to so I can be higher than that
I'm a bad example for routine.
You need to find your own level, that fits in with your life.
I don't count carbs, I just eat to a calorie limit, but again, I do that by eye, rather than any measurement.
If I put on weight, I eat less for a while.
I have periods when I naturally don't eat many carbs, and I have periods when I eat more, it depends on where I am, and what food is available really. (If I'm out, food tends to be carby, if I'm in, I prefer fish, salad, and that sort of stuff).
But I do notice, if I do go low carb, the first carbs give me a bigger spike than the second meal, as my body adjusts back and to, but I've got used to that happening.
You don't count carbs and in other posts you state that high fat is bad for people. You certainly do things different from most members and I am not sure that you are coping well with the diabetes? I am also wondering if you should be handing out advice to other members?
Hi,
I cannot see the other half of your conversation (because of the Ignore button), but I can hazard a guess that ketogenic physiological insulin resistance is being talked about?
If that is the case, it only happens when people are in long term ketosis, which is where they eat so few carbs a day that their body switches to using fat as fuel, rather than glucose. The switch happens at different points for different people. Some get into ketosis at 50g carbs a day, others at less than 20 g carbs a day, but once in ketosis, and adjusted to it (it can take weeks), people tend to have more energy, and more endurance. There are many endurance athletes who use ketosis nowadays, because they don't 'hit the wall' where their glucose energy reserves run out.
This is, of course, very different from normal low carb eating, and is usually referred to as Very low carb or keto eating. Calling it generically 'low carb' is rather misleading.
Physiological insulin resistance happens when people have been keto for weeks or months. Their baseline blood glucose rises a little. For me, it seems to rise by about 1mmol/l. This is often described by anti-low carbers as a bad thing, but there is no evidence for this, and it has done no one any recorded harm (I have looked for the evidence). I LIKE it. It protects me from any chance of hypos, and is a good indication of being in ketosis (fuelled by fat). No glucose hypers or hypos, no sleepiness after meals, no fatigue at all, really. Additionally, my HbA1c is lovely and low when I am in ketogenic physiological insulin resistance, so as far as I can see it is all good.
Something else you may find useful to know, is that when people exercise their insulin resistance often drops. Doesn't happen for an unfortunate 20% (approx) according to one of the few studies on the subject (I can look the link out, if you like), but for the rest of us, when we exercise enough hard enough and long enough (for me it is a brisk dog walk), our muscles become less insulin resistant. This means that more of the glucose can enter the muscle cells and get used. Have you ever had that feeling of warmth in your muscles after exercise and the sense of feeling goood? (before this exercise, I have a lot of insulin resistance, and asking my big muscles to do things like go upstairs, or walk fast makes my legs feel heavy and sluggish. Once the insulin resistance lowers, that feeling disappears and I feel the action takes less effort) That is what it feels like for me. Insulin resistance then stays lowered for a while post exercise, but the 'while' depends entirely on fitness, level of usual insulin resistance and activity levels, so how long is a piece of string?
Hope that helps.
the bit I was quoting sunnyexpat said: Low carbing tends to make you physiologically insulin resistant. No mention of ketogenic. I dont think I eat few enough carbs to be ketogenic. Sorry to be so thick. After the initial couple of weeks, I enjoy the swimming and walking i do and feel happier in myself afterwards. is that what you mean about it working against my insulin resisitance?
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