Extreme fatigue

Hello and welcome!
First let me tag in @daisy1 for her useful info post.
Wow that’s a lot of supplements you take! Can you tell us a bit about what you eat, a typical day’s food would be good. Your fasting level is high and your fatigue may be the result of high levels throughout the day. Do you test before and after meals at all?

A change in diet could see an end (or at least a reduction) in that list of supplements. Switching to a diet that is nutrient dense, low in carbohydrates and higher in healthy fats should provide you with all the vitamins and minerals you need alongside a good quantity of protein. Fatigue is a common problem for those of us with a metabolic condition, we cannot 'process' a diet high in carbs and so we look to getting our fuel from healthy fats.

Have a wander around the forum and ask as many questions as you like.

RetiredTech said:

I have been type 2 for quite a few years now. Fatigue is a big problem. I have lost all my get up and go and often nod to totsl sleep for an hour or so. I use only all natural supplements since their drugs only caused big problems like metformin and one other caused foot and lower leg poain and really did not lower the gloucose levels in some cases was even higher. they one time gave me a insulin shot which caused me to nod behind the wheel on the highway. i take bitter melon gymnema sylvestre fenugreek in swannson brand glucohelp applecider vinegar milk thistle holy basil ginger root my readings average in the morning after overnight are 160 I am 64 years old

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Sounds like how I was when diagnosed. I'd sometimes lay in bed and think I really needed a lie-down, as I was so tired, just to realise I already was, and it wasn't helping. So deeply fatigued it hurt. A lot of your supplements were in my cupboard too, but nothing was making a difference. Getting diagnosed and then getting my bloodsugars under control via diet made all the difference in the world. Check Dr. Jason Fung's books or dietdoctor.com, those are really helpful. There is hope.

Hi @RetiredTech, from my experience as a Type 1 diabetic and not as professional advice or opinion:
If you look at the Home page, menu item 'Living with Diabetes" the acceptable blood sugar ranges for Type 2 diabetics are listed. Whilst there is no fasting (morning after nighttime) level recommended for Type 2, the level before say, breakfast is 7 mmol/l (= 126 mg/dL).
I assume that the reading of 160 you refer to is 160 mg/dL (= 8.9 mmol/l) blood sugar level (BSL)?
If so, that suggests you are above the acceptable range even before breakfast.
The only ways I know to gauge how the rest of the day and days are going diabetes-wise is by doing things like finger-prick tests using a glucose meter and applying the acceptable range of blood sugar levels(BSLs) to those results..
I find BSLs about 2 hours after food informs me about the effect of my diet, and whether I need to alter my diet or treatment accordingly.
I also obtain a blood test ordered by my doctor every 3 months. This test, called a HBA1C (Glycosylated Haemoglobin), indicates what the average of the range of blood sugars have been like over the previous 3 months. As an average it does not tell me what the range of my BSLs have been like (that is the lowest to highest).
Without these ways of testing I am guessing as to whether my treatment is working or not.
Returning to your BSLs, levels averaging 160 in the morning after overnight, you are already likely to be exceeding the acceptable BSL before breakfast. That means you are likely to be spilling out excess glucose in your urine, as this is typical of diabetes when BSLs exceed a certain level.
Think about it. How well and long can an airplane fly with a leaky gas tank? If your doctor or you checked your urine in the morning there is likely to be glucose (sugar) showing up.
So you are leaking glucose, one of the body's main fuel sources. Even if you put in more fuel (food which is digested to glucose in the blood within 2 hours or so (that is most of the carbohydrate type foods)) the BSL is likely to go higher and more glucose spills out into the urine. Think of a hole in the gas tank which is fixed at a certain level so that any excess gas just spills out.
The other thought about your 160 result is whether whatever treatment you are taking/is prescribed, and including your food intake, is working well enough? Not having regular testing of BSL and progress can hide the fact that treatment is not working. (sort of like not doing all the regular maintenance on the airplane engine/fuel tank etc)
Whether your diabetes control (or perhaps insufficient control) is enough to explain all your tiredness is up to your doctor to sort out. But you need to see him or her to find out what is the best way forward.
Have you talked to your doc about your tiredness and what treatment, diet and BSL results you are taking and getting?
Has, despite your previous experiences with treatment, assessment of your diabetes, BSLs, urine testing, and assessment of various other causes for tiredness been done?
If you have largely disengaged from your doctor and done your own treatment I would urge you to re-engage with your doc as persistently high BSLs are known to cause harm long term.
Others have mentioned diet and I would encourage you read up under Type 2 diabetes on the Home page menu about this (LCHF) so that you can discuss it with your doctor and perhaps present the references and ? a small number of pages as a print out to give him/her information on how the diet works and what results happen with persons on such diets.
Best Wishes and longer flying in future !!

RetiredTech said:

I have been type 2 for quite a few years now. Fatigue is a big problem. I have lost all my get up and go and often nod to totsl sleep for an hour or so. I use only all natural supplements since their drugs only caused big problems like metformin and one other caused foot and lower leg poain and really did not lower the gloucose levels in some cases was even higher. they one time gave me a insulin shot which caused me to nod behind the wheel on the highway. i take bitter melon gymnema sylvestre fenugreek in swannson brand glucohelp applecider vinegar milk thistle holy basil ginger root my readings average in the morning after overnight are 160 I am 64 years old

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I completely forgot to mention: Us T2's are seemingly quite susseptable to vitamin D deficiency. Get checked for that if you can, as it can be quite the double whammy; high bloodsugars and D- deficiency can drain the life right out of you.

@RetiredTech
Hello and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to help.

BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEW MEMBERS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

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