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Fasting glucose rising as weight and post-meal numbers improve

eggs11

eggs11

Well-Known Member
Messages
638
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I've been LCHF for around 7 weeks now - have lost 20 pounds in this time. I had a good weight loss of 2.5 pounds this last week, but my fasting glucose has gone from mid 5s to low 6s in the last week or so and can sometimes be 6 before meals now - but the rise in bs 2 hours after meals has lowered to under 1. Has anyone seen this before - when post-prandial improves but fasting bs is generally higher? It's confusing!
 
eggs11 said:
Hi, what is a liver block? I'm just controlling with diet at the mo, so not any meds.
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Do you fast before bed then fast through the night? As liver loves those times. It dumps right in the middle, about 3amish. You most likely going to bed on great levels and it dumps through the night raising your fbg!

Answer: find the right fatty protein for supper and not too much. Cheese or pork scratchings or some just have a dollup of butter or mayo but I find bacon with fat on good or about 5 almonds or (smoked)mackerel mashed to look more. Cheese cubes but about 6 small ones.
 
Are you very low carb @eggs11 ?

If so, it sounds like a touch of physiological insulin resistance (PIR). This is not the same as diabetic insulin resistance.
Briefly, when we are low in glucose over a period of time our bodies try to save as much of the glucose as they can for the brain, so when our insulin tries to push this glucose in the cells, the cells reject it and it is sent to the brain. I don't really understand the science behind it, but it causes fasting and pre-meal levels to rise a little bit (not massively) but has no effect on how much we rise post meal. It is normally temporary, and can be stopped by eating a few extra carbs for 2 or 3 days. Or you can just ride it out if the increase isn't very much.


http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/physiological-insulin-resistance.html
http://ketopia.com/physiological-insulin-resistance/
 
ickihun said:
Do you fast before bed then fast through the night? As liver loves those times. It dumps right in the middle, about 3amish. You most likely going to bed on great levels and it dumps through the night raising your fbg!

Answer: find the right fatty protein for supper and not too much. Cheese or pork scratchings or some just have a dollup of butter or mayo but I find bacon with fat on good or about 5 almonds or (smoked)mackerel mashed to look more. Cheese cubes but about 6 small ones.
Click to expand...
ickihun said:
Do you fast before bed then fast through the night? As liver loves those times. It dumps right in the middle, about 3amish. You most likely going to bed on great levels and it dumps through the night raising your fbg!

Answer: find the right fatty protein for supper and not too much. Cheese or pork scratchings or some just have a dollup of butter or mayo but I find bacon with fat on good or about 5 almonds or (smoked)mackerel mashed to look more. Cheese cubes but about 6 small ones.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I will try some nuts tonight.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Are you very low carb @eggs11 ?

If so, it sounds like a touch of physiological insulin resistance (PIR). This is not the same as diabetic insulin resistance.
Briefly, when we are low in glucose over a period of time our bodies try to save as much of the glucose as they can for the brain, so when our insulin tries to push this glucose in the cells, the cells reject it and it is sent to the brain. I don't really understand the science behind it, but it causes fasting and pre-meal levels to rise a little bit (not massively) but has no effect on how much we rise post meal. It is normally temporary, and can be stopped by eating a few extra carbs for 2 or 3 days. Or you can just ride it out if the increase isn't very much.


http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/2007/10/physiological-insulin-resistance.html
http://ketopia.com/physiological-insulin-resistance/
Click to expand...
Hmmm that is very interesting indeed - I'm not extremely low carb, in that I have around 50-60g a day - but almost 100% of my carbs are from non-starchy vegetables. I have been suffering from dry eye in one eye in this last week too and discovered online that it can also be from too little carbs - so I will up them a bit with a couple of oatcakes today.
 
eggs11 said:
Hmmm that is very interesting indeed - I'm not extremely low carb, in that I have around 50-60g a day - but almost 100% of my carbs are from non-starchy vegetables. I have been suffering from dry eye in one eye in this last week too and discovered online that it can also be from too little carbs - so I will up them a bit with a couple of oatcakes today.
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Only for a day or two - not permanently! Let us know if it works.

It happened to me about 2 years ago, which is when I started trying to find information about PIR. My fastings and pre-meal averages had increased about half a mmol/l or a little bit more (say from 5.2 to 5.8 or so) I just rode it out and after a month or two they went back to where they had been. If you do a bit of Googling you may find more information.
 
I've read breaking keto can give lower bgs until too low again.

If only fbgs higher but all other bgs good I wouldn't add more carbs. You'll gain higher bgs.
 
ickihun said:
I've read breaking keto can give lower bgs until too low again.

If only fbgs higher but all other bgs good I wouldn't add more carbs. You'll gain higher bgs.
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Thanks - I'm being very conservative with just 12g extra of carbs today,just to see what happens.

At 6.2 on waking my bs rose to 7.2 before breakfast - then was 6.2 again after eating so does seem like my stupid liver is going mad for dumping sugar if any form of fasting is happening as the breakfast solved it
 
eggs11 said:
Thanks - I'm being very conservative with just 12g extra of carbs today,just to see what happens.

At 6.2 on waking my bs rose to 7.2 before breakfast - then was 6.2 again after eating so does seem like my stupid liver is going mad for dumping sugar if any form of fasting is happening as the breakfast solved it
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Keep your eye on the levels immediately before your evening meal. This is the time of day when most of us see our lowest levels as liver dumping has all but gone by then, and if there has been a longish gap between lunch and evening meal it is a semi-fast. (provided you haven't been snacking etc during the afternoon!) You will get far more idea of what is happening from these levels than you will from your morning fasting levels.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Keep your eye on the levels immediately before your evening meal. This is the time of day when most of us see our lowest levels as liver dumping has all but gone by then, and if there has been a longish gap between lunch and evening meal it is a semi-fast. (provided you haven't been snacking etc during the afternoon!) You will get far more idea of what is happening from these levels than you will from your morning fasting levels.
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Thanks will do!
 
Personly if you are still losing weight I would ignore BG in the low 6s as provided it is fat you are losing (e.g. you are eating enough protein), it will start itself out.

Also, low 6s for life is not an issue provided you don't get high peaks from meals.
 
So I did have a snack mid-afternoon and pre-dinner last night was 6.1 - ate a very small amount of brown rice with fish and salad and 2 hours later 6.3 - then 3 hours later, before bed, 6.4 (the meal had quite a lot of fat in it)! I forgot to do a snack before bed as went to bed early - woke to 6.5, small amount of soy yogurt and lots of walking - 2 hours later 7.4, now down to 5.8.

So it is falling during the day if I leave long enough between meals. I'm going to go back to under 50g of carbs and ride it out as I think these things could be affecting it: dehydration - have been slackening with water intake and have a sore throat, which was dry yesterday - eyes are better today, but have been dry too
hormones - could be lead up to TOTM - I wasn't testing this time last month, so don't know yet how that affects me
Plus at the weekend I didn't eat until after midday both saturday and sunday - trying to eat in a smaller window of time both days - maybe my liver has got into the habit of dumping more because of this

Personally I wonder if it's a combination of all these things!
 
Yes, I think it is better to ride it out and let your body do the sorting without interference. It may take a while, but hang on in there!
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Yes, I think it is better to ride it out and let your body do the sorting without interference. It may take a while, but hang on in there!
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Thanks @Bluetit1802 for all your advice and help - fingers crossed it's just a hormonal blip, the numbers aren't spiking after meals, so will keep to usual routine.
 
I don't feel it's anything to worry about. I occasionally get fasting nos in the 6's and am now learning it's just one of those things. Bad sleep or stress often causes readings to rise. So I would suggest just keep an eye on things.
 
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