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Fasting

FatBadger

FatBadger

Member
Messages
12
Hi all
I’ve just started reading “The Diabetes Code”. (Not, as it turns out, the latest novel by Dan Brown.) by Dr Jason Fung, which I found a recommendation for on this forum. Literally just started yesterday and so far only read the prologue and chapter one.

For someone like me, born into possibly the last “if you want to know the time, ask a policeman” generation. Raised to implicitly trust institutions like the NHS, it’s hard to wrap my head around the suggestion, which I’ve seen echoed here on the forum over the three weeks since I joined, that not all doctors can be trusted regarding treatment of Diabetes. As someone who obviously never had reason to give the condition much thought until now, the revelation that not everyone is on the same page is shocking and a little disturbing.

I think I might be lucky, in that the nurse I had my initial appointment with, seemed pretty on the ball with good advice (including checking out this forum) and keen to steer me initially toward diet and exercise changes to bring my levels down, before looking at medication. But (and hopefully it won’t now come to this) this has all left me wondering whether if I am eventually prescribed medication, I should be saying thank’s but no thank’s.

Anyway, as I say hopefully my levels will have dropped sufficiently by the time I go back in a couple of months, for it not to be a decision I have to face and I’m actually here today looking for advice about fasting.

I’ve struggled with my weight for most of my adult life (prior to which I had a Whippet like ability to stay thin.) and as a perennially reforming pie muncher, the current changes to my diet, the strictest I have ever faced (which I have completely stuck to by the way) are challenge enough already, without thinking about adding fasting to the mix.

But here we are, thinking about it and now talking about it. Jason Fung suggests that two popular fasting strategies, are to fast for 24 hours two or three times a week, or for 16 hours five to six times per week. Well the first of those sounds like setting myself up to fail and the second pretty much sounds like the majority of my days engaged in fasting! (You know… I’m suddenly thinking about Cheeseburgers as I’m writing this. Only saying.)

None the less, if I was looking at the second route. Am I right to think that what we’re essentially talking about is given that breakfast is at 6am. Your meals should be organised so as to not eat anything after 3pm? Those of you who utilise fasting, what approach do you take to it?

Thank’s all
Badger.
 
Hi @FatBadger

Great that you’re looking into all this. Have to say that when I first read about fasting on this forum I thought people were crazy! Now I’m a big advocate.

I’d say wait until you’re ready. For me it was a really big step due to my chronic migraines which I’d always believed were triggered by missing or even delaying meals, and indeed they were, but only, it seems while they were ‘fuelled’ by carbs. Fasting is a lot easier when you’re eating very low carb and become fat adapted.

But anyway, once I’d taken the plunge and skipped breakfast once or twice without incident, I stumbled into eating once a day most days while on holiday and never looked back. It was a game changer for me.

To directly answer your question, if you want an 8 hour eating window, starting at 6am then last food should be finished by 2pm. It’s about finding what works for your schedule. Personally I find it far, far easier to skip breakfast than dinner and my eating window is usually around noon or so until about 5pm - not like clockwork, but I like to finish eating as early as possible in the day.
 
Until I went keto, I used to get bitterly hungry. Now I don't. I do experience hunger, but nothing like as bad as it used to be. I got into intermittent fasting by accident, because I've only ever eaten (as an adult) when I was hungry, and for me (we're all different) hunger doesn't cut in until midday or after, as long as I can have my coffee. So I eat twice daily on average, but if I am hungry between those times, I don't stick it out and suffer - I eat something, even if it's only a small piece of cheese or a hard-boiled egg. However, there is no way I could fast for longer than I do, certainly not over several days. I don't sleep well, and going to bed hungry would be a bad idea.

I know people who never get hungry, and I presume long fasts are easy for them, but they wouldn't work for me. The thing is to find what your body finds easy, and do it.
 
It sounds worse then it is. I started out with skipping breakfast several years ago, a Atkins bar for lunch and normal dinner. This changed to just dinner and dinner changed to low carb high fat diner (mostly, every now and then I cheat to keep sane)
The first 1-2 days are the worst because your body and mind are going "Hey! It's lunch time" but after that you just don't know any better.
For me it has helped a lot in stabilizing my BS. The only thing I have not solved with it is a BS spike in the mornings but that's me.
Unfortunately it has done little to nothing for my weight.
The craziest thing I have done was last year, I fasted (meaning nothing) for 3 days followed by 2 days with just dinner being, a lot of, meat and repeat. This way I lost 20kg. It did little for my BS and when I returned to my normal pattern of low carb high fat dinner every day I gained 7kg again returning to my once stable weight. Not something I would recommend certainly not if you can't monitor your BS levels. Just saying even this is possible. The first day you are hungry after that the hunger strangely enough disappears and when I finally may eat mostly I would not even be hungry.
There are a lot of success stories out there with fasting so I would certainly give it a try.
Over here (Netherlands) the doctors, at least most gp's, are stuck in the 70's and still give the advice they used to give back then.
Not that I want to promote them, but if you can afford to I would suggest trying a sensor like the freestyle libre (there are more). You can get a free trial one which last 14 days. I did so after my doctor kept upping my meds because my sober BS was always high. For me it was a real and absolute eyeopener. You can actually see what the impact of foods that you thought were good choices are having.
 
@FatBadger the thing I'm learning with t2 is never say never.
I never thought I'd look forward to cheese instead of dessert
I never thought I'd lose 3 stone without being hungry
I never thought grains are as bad for me as sugar is
I could never do long fasts
Etc etc
I too am now thinking of increasing the times between my meals (that sounds much easier than fasting doesn't it?), mainly becuase I no longer need to eat so often. I already often skip breakfast and finish evening meal at 6. I could do longer if I didn't have to feed my family, I'm still no good at refusing food if its in front of me or if im preparing it for others.
So as the wise @Goonergal says, go at your own pace, do what feels right for you,when it feels right. There plenty of fb groups and sites will help you if you want to do long fasts
I did a 24 hour one once, only because i was in a situation where I couldn't get food, but because id read about it I knew my body could cope, and it did. It felt right. In the old days I'd have been almost panicking at the thought and feeling of no food, but it was OK.
There are no hard and fast rules.
 
Thank’s for the terrific replies everybody.
Finished chapter two now and was interested to learn about sone of the history of Diabetes. Some of this has been uncomfortable reading so far and I have to admit that I hadn’t really appreciated how serious the condition could be.
I mean, I knew it wasn’t a great thing of course. But I think the language has been normalised to an extent and you don’t really bat an eye anymore if someone says they have it.

A few years ago when I was diagnosed as pre diabetic, I managed to reverse it although it wasn’t easy and having got down to 14st for the first time in a number of years, I promised myself I’d never go back. (My target was apparently 13st, so I never actually reached that. Same target now so hopefully I’ll do better.) Somehow though it got away from me and now the diabetes?

If I’m honest, I feel a little bitter about it. I mean, I know it’s my own fault. But last time I was heavier than this and while I knew I’d strayed from the path, based on what happened before, I thought I had more time. More time to fix it.

Anyway, sorry to bleat on.
Badger
 
FatBadger said:
If I’m honest, I feel a little bitter about it. I mean, I know it’s my own fault. But last time I was heavier than this and while I knew I’d strayed from the path, based on what happened before, I thought I had more time. More time to fix it.
Click to expand...
Definitely not your fault - responsibility, yes, but fault/blame, no! Don’t look back, look forward you’re on a much better path now, and if there are a few bumps along the way, well then you’re just human like the rest of us. Very few (if any) success stories are as linear as the write ups suggest. You got this!
 
I got pretty good results from doing the longer 24-48 hour fasts and keto. Lots of walking helped too. I think it took me about 8 months to drop 30kg.

There were times where I was in pretty heavy ketosis when I didn’t feel hungry, so I pushed it pretty hard. But there were other times where I needed to back off.

you can be a little flexible
 
I significantly reduced my Hb1Ac (from 65 to 42 mmol/mol) and lost 10 kg by intermittent fasting,
using the 5+2 diet where on two days I only ate 600 calories with very few carbs.
This means yoghurt and half an apple, or eggs or salmon for breakfast,
liquid lunch (a bottle of water) and vegetable curry, with a bit of chicken or fish or soup and salad for dinner,
As you can eat a lot of vegetables, salad and soup and stay below 600 calories per day, I never really felt hungry.
I ate normal the other five days.
I was surprised that this worked as I had seen too many diets fail.
The Diabetes Code by Jason Fung explains this well.
Intermittent fasting has been honed by evolution, when our hunter ancestors
were unsuccessful in hunting a mammoth,
they were eating less and burning fat.
 
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