My experience is the other way round. I reduced my blood glucose via low-carb, and only after I'd achieved that did I lose weight. So, back in normal range within four months, but the minimum weight loss Taylor says is "essential for remission" wasn't achieved until the following year. The Taylor method focuses on weight loss but I do wonder how much of that is to make it appear that he's in line with current NHS advice.I watched an American on you tube. I keep to diabetes.co.uk diabetes.org and Roy Taylor Newcastle university. You can find anything on the web.
She had fat loss surgery diabetes gone or in remission. Roy Taylor Newcastle university also talks about fat loss putting into remission for some people. He says remove fat around liver and some lesser in pancreas helps.
Fat loss important but I don’t get link between carbs and fat loss.
I’ve lost about 2stone. I’m puzzled though. Im grateful full too you all and this community I have learned so much from all. Without I’d be lost thank you massively everyone I feel lucky I’m sure I’m diabetic but I have best help to sort myself out thank you all
SMy experience is the other way round. I reduced my blood glucose via low-carb, and only after I'd achieved that did I lose weight. So, back in normal range within four months, but the minimum weight loss Taylor says is "essential for remission" wasn't achieved until the following year. The Taylor method focuses on weight loss but I do wonder how much of that is to make it appear that he's in line with current NHS advice.
It would be almost impossible to achieve the 800 calories/day that the Taylor approach requires and not automatically be low-carbing at the same time. 5 kcals per gram of carb means that the maximum carb intake (assuming zero kcals from protein or fat) would be 160g/day. He also thinks that after the inital intervention a low-carb diet is fine, which begs the question of why not start it immediately - but then you wouldn't be able to sell your intervention programme and your shakes.
The carb and body fat thing - all digestable carbs are digested to glucose. If the body can't store glucose efficiently for fuel in muscle tissue (because of insulin resistance), it will convert it to body fat, either subcutaneous or visceral fat round the internal organs. Some glucose will hang around in the bloodstream as well. If, like me, you have a problem handling large amounts of carb in the diet (pretty much a working definition of Type 2) eating a higher carb diet than you can manage will lead to both weight gain and higher blood glucose levels.
The body needs around 130g of glucose daily. If that level is not available from carbs as food, the body is capable of synthesizing glucose from body fat or proteins. The low carb approach (ie under 130g/day) is intended to make the body use its fat stores to produce glucose, and stop it from adding new fat to them.
Because we're all different there's no guarantee that everyone will have exactly the same experience. Some people have high BGs but never acquire the obvious bodyfat - the "Thin Outside, Fat Inside" experience.
I'd also not get hung up on the "remission" word. There used to be at least four working definitions of remission - the one used for me a few years back was a full 12 months of HbA1c readings in normal range (not 42 or greater) without use of medication during that time. The current agreed definition is two HbA1c readings not above 48 six months apart, without medication. So under the new definition you'll get claims of "remission" when BG levels are still well out of normal range.
Personally, I have a problem with that sort of non-definition which suits the medics and enables government funding, but says very little about the condition and future prospects of the patient.
The carbs are not in fat. Fat is fat. Carb - excess carb - in the diet if not used as fuel is converted to bodyfat and a bit of it stays in the bloodstream. Neither dietary protein nor dietary fat is stored as bodyfat. I do have a nice graphic that shows how in some detail how your system can break down bodyfat both for fuel and to replace the glucose it needs, but it's not on the machine I'm using at the minute.“The body needs around 130g of glucose daily. If that level is not available from carbs as food, the body is capable of synthesizing glucose from body fat or proteins. The low carb approach (ie under 130g/day) is intended to make the body use its fat stores to produce glucose, and stop it from adding new fat to them.” From Kenny A post above
ah so the body seeks to use carbs in fat and burn it off.
I’m not sure that if you’re damaged you can’t always do remission but you just go try health life food. I’m not sure if diet too tough.
A point, as was the whole post to my mind, very well made .It would be almost impossible to achieve the 800 calories/day that the Taylor approach requires and not automatically be low-carbing at the same time. 5 kcals per gram of carb means that the maximum carb intake (assuming zero kcals from protein or fat) would be 160g/day. He also thinks that after the inital intervention a low-carb diet is fine, which begs the question of why not start it immediately - but then you wouldn't be able to sell your intervention programme and your shakes.
My post are this post are not at odds. They say the same thing. The image you posted illustrates glucose metabolism, not fat metabolism.I don't think your quote (wherever it's from, the link isn't working) means quite what you think it means. I think you may be confusing the transport mechanism with what is being transported.
This is from Zimmermann's An Introduction to Nutrition. https://med.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Nutrition/An_Introduction_to_Nutrition_(Zimmerman)/05:_Lipids/5.04:_Digestion_and_Absorption_of_Lipids#:~:text=In the stomach fat is,fats through the lymph system.
One way the body stores fat involves the body transforms carbohydrates into glycogen that is in turn stored in the muscles for energy. When the muscles reach their capacity for glycogen storage, the excess is returned to the liver, where it is converted into triacylglycerols and then stored as fat.
In a similar manner, much of the triacylglycerols the body receives from food is transported to fat storehouses within the body if not used for producing energy. The chylomicrons are responsible for shuttling the triacylglycerols to various locations such as the muscles, breasts, external layers under the skin, and internal fat layers of the abdomen, thighs, and buttocks where they are stored by the body in adipose tissue for future use. How is this accomplished? Recall that chylomicrons are large lipoproteins that contain a triacylglycerol and fatty-acid core. Capillary walls contain an enzyme called lipoprotein-lipase that dismantles the triacylglycerols in the lipoproteins into fatty acids and glycerol, thus enabling these to enter into the adipose cells. Once inside the adipose cells, the fatty acids and glycerol are reassembled into triacylglycerols and stored for later use. Muscle cells may also take up the fatty acids and use them for muscular work and generating energy. When a person’s energy requirements exceed the amount of available fuel presented from a recent meal or extended physical activity has exhausted glycogen energy reserves, fat reserves are retrieved for energy utilization.
As the body calls for additional energy, the adipose tissue responds by dismantling its triacylglycerols and dispensing glycerol and fatty acids directly into the blood. Upon receipt of these substances the energy-hungry cells break them down further into tiny fragments. These fragments go through a series of chemical reactions that yield energy, carbon dioxide, and water.
On the other hand, if you're correct, I will need to find that >30kg of bodyfat I lost on the high fat diet because I clearly shouldn't have.
This graphic is the one I mentioned from Bilous and Donnelly's Handbook of Diabetes.
This is the old calories in, calories out model, which is still the simple one the media promote and which doesn't work in a low-carb world. It certainly doesn't apply to me in terms of what I've been eating since late 2019. I have no idea what my "calorific" intake has been but it's certainly been way more than would account for the over 30kg loss.My post are this post are not at odds. They say the same thing. The image you posted illustrates glucose metabolism, not fat metabolism.
You can eat a high-fat diet and still lose body fat. Fat stored in adipose tissue (fat cells) will grow in in caloric surplus, and shrink in caloric deficit. If you eat enough cheese, you will get fat, and the fat in the cheese can go directly from intestine to adipose tissue through the bloodstream. If you eat less than your daily energy needs for any length of time the fat will come back out of adipose tissue faster than it goes in, even if you're eating cheese.
Calories in and calories out is much too simplistic a way to describe energy but it can be a useful concept because it's simple. For example - the body expends much more energy metabolising protein than it does carbohydrates, and a certain amount of protein eaten daily goes toward building new cells. Protein calories go 'missing' - you can't compare carb, protein and fat calories on a like-for-like basis. As a rough measure of energy consumed though it works well enough to be useful. I've used the concept successfully to aim for and hit a weekly rate loss target using calories to plan my shopping list. Professional athletes use the concept to plan meals that suit the amount of energy they expend training. It's far from a perfect concept, but it's good enough to be useful.This is the old calories in, calories out model, which is still the simple one the media promote and which doesn't work in a low-carb world. It certainly doesn't apply to me in terms of what I've been eating since late 2019. I have no idea what my "calorific" intake has been but it's certainly been way more than would account for the over 30kg loss.
I would suggest that you read some of those authors that you have been avoiding. Or even find an encyclopaedia published before 1980. I can still recall being taught "dietary fat is not stored as bodyfat" as very basic human nutrition back in the early 1970s for my O level biology. But that was before fat was thoroughly vilified as the sole cause of heart disease etc.
I'm sorry to have confused you with the graphic. It's one I referred to earlier in post#9.
Your details say that you're T2 diabetic and on medication, and I have been trying to help you (and others) utilise a solution to both high blood glucose and obesity that worked and works very well for me and for many people on these forums.Calories in and calories out is much too simplistic a way to describe energy but it can be a useful concept because it's simple. For example - the body expends much more energy metabolising protein than it does carbohydrates, and a certain amount of protein eaten daily goes toward building new cells. Protein calories go 'missing' - you can't compare carb, protein and fat calories on a like-for-like basis. As a rough measure of energy consumed though it works well enough to be useful. I've used the concept successfully to aim for and hit a weekly rate loss target using calories to plan my shopping list. Professional athletes use the concept to plan meals that suit the amount of energy they expend training. It's far from a perfect concept, but it's good enough to be useful.
You're right - it doesn't work well in the low carb world because a low carb diet is high in protein and/or fat. The protein calorie numbers can be way off for the reasons described above, and there's ketosis to consider. When ketone levels in the blood are high a portion of them will be expelled via the urine. In ketosis, you pee calories, at least until such time as you become fat adapted and blood ketone levels in the blood drop to lower levels.
I will continue to avoid books by authors who might, for example, criticise calories in vs calories out as a concept without explaining in detail the circumstances when it is and isn't useful. I will also continue to read the current state of scientific knowledge over anything written before the invention of the technology that might make the current state different from what went before.
The human body is not a calorific chamber, so the laws of physics cannot be applied , due to many losses, inability to utilise, insoluble fibre, and many foods we don't all have the gut microbiome to digest fully.
Calories in is relevant, but only in a minor way, unless you seriously pig out.
This is true - energy is energy, but calories are not a great way to represent it in the context of food and managing weight. It is currently the simplest way to compare one food product with another but I think something better could replace it.The laws of physics apply everywhere in the universe . To say they don't apply to humans is a bit absurd.
The "due to many losses, inability to utilise, insoluble fibre, and many foods we don't all have the gut microbiome to digest fully" are just possible scenarios of 'calories in/out'.
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