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<blockquote data-quote="AloeSvea" data-source="post: 2353784" data-attributes="member: 150927"><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Hi [USER=403497]@Sean_Raymond[/USER] - very curious and interesting that after reading about the low carb approach to type two diabetes, you take on the idea that it works so well because - it allows us to eat less. (That old tired - and wrong - idea about weight loss by simply eating less.) </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">As someone that practices basically every method out there to keep body-fat - particularly around my waist - to a healthier/protective state (apparently which is less than half one's height) (<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20819243/" target="_blank">https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20819243/</a>) the idea that I would spend the rest of my life being hungry all the time in order to do this is beyond comprehension. I am not alone - I am pretty sure that this is the reason that 'simply eating less' (ie calorie deficit) to be a healthy weight (ie have healthy fat cells) has not worked for soooo many.</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Hunger is a normal physical response to not eating enough in order to get the nutrients and energy in order to keep you alive, let alone think clearly, and do things and lift things and move. Hunger is a good thing, not a bad thing and is natural and healthy. It is how we eat enough, after all. </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Many with type two understand that their systems have been mucked up, and how their hunger and satiation hormones are not working well is part of the dysruption of the blood glucose regulation system. I agree with Gary Taubes, and Phinney and Volek (<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Living/dp/0983490708" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Living/dp/0983490708</a>), and et al ,that excessive carbohydrates, especially in the form of sugar, as yummy as they are, are the culprit for this, and that mammals like us have not evolved to eat carbs in the amounts that has become mandated from above and as normal, as we are seeing in our societies in the last 40 or so years. Also, the new fats that were introduced to our diets in order to lower the amount of saturated fats in our diets that became the dietary demon around the same time, uncoincidentally.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">The amazingly complex diagrams about blood glucose regulation, called the Randle cycle, I have seen and refer to jokingly from time to time, absolutely involve dietary fat. But in those diagrams the raised glucose levels which bring about the raised insulin levels which tip the system way into chaos, seem obviously to be the point where chaos begins. (<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/randle-cycle" target="_blank">https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/randle-cycle</a>)</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">This is not a personal individual dietary/regulatory phenomenon - this is us being an omniverous mammal. I don't think this is particularly controversial! The degree to which folks can take high carbs with high fat - and I would say - these new fats which we cannot digest properly or well - before their bodies break down is what is individual and different - not that it can break down big time. That is part of us being human and having human bodies which have evolved on certain dietary parameters. This is why type two diabetes is spiralling out of control into being a - dare I say it? - a global big health problem. (And especially in the wake of our big enemy - a very nasty virus - currently being a global health problem.)</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Anyway - to go low carb, and when one has type two - to go as low sugar and carb as one can (and oh yes, that level can differ enormously between individuals, due, imho, to how sick your fat cells are) is not about not having enough nutrition and energy, ie to not have enough food and going hungry. It is about lowering the very foods (for me - anything with sugar added, and made from milk, and wheat, and I would add - with the new wheat strain,as with the new potatoes, maize and rice - <a href="https://croplife.org/news/the-evolutionary-story-of-four-vital-crops/" target="_blank">https://croplife.org/news/the-evolutionary-story-of-four-vital-crops/</a> ) that have caused the hugely raised blood glucose levels which caused the insulin cascade and inflammed and sickened my ever expanding fat cells into the state they are in today. (<a href="https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2020.00022/full" target="_blank">https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2020.00022/full</a>).</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">As part of the low-fat eating folk since the late 1970s when it was governmentally mandated in the countries I have lived in, it was not the saturated fat and cholesterol-high food (eggs! for instance, and fatty cuts of meat) I unfortunately was not eating (I believed these governments - one of my greatest regrets), but the sugar and carb-heavy food I substituted, that got me here in this forum discussing this with you all today.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AloeSvea, post: 2353784, member: 150927"] [FONT=Arial] Hi [USER=403497]@Sean_Raymond[/USER] - very curious and interesting that after reading about the low carb approach to type two diabetes, you take on the idea that it works so well because - it allows us to eat less. (That old tired - and wrong - idea about weight loss by simply eating less.) As someone that practices basically every method out there to keep body-fat - particularly around my waist - to a healthier/protective state (apparently which is less than half one's height) ([URL]https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20819243/[/URL]) the idea that I would spend the rest of my life being hungry all the time in order to do this is beyond comprehension. I am not alone - I am pretty sure that this is the reason that 'simply eating less' (ie calorie deficit) to be a healthy weight (ie have healthy fat cells) has not worked for soooo many.[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Hunger is a normal physical response to not eating enough in order to get the nutrients and energy in order to keep you alive, let alone think clearly, and do things and lift things and move. Hunger is a good thing, not a bad thing and is natural and healthy. It is how we eat enough, after all. Many with type two understand that their systems have been mucked up, and how their hunger and satiation hormones are not working well is part of the dysruption of the blood glucose regulation system. I agree with Gary Taubes, and Phinney and Volek ([URL]https://www.amazon.com/Art-Science-Low-Carbohydrate-Living/dp/0983490708[/URL]), and et al ,that excessive carbohydrates, especially in the form of sugar, as yummy as they are, are the culprit for this, and that mammals like us have not evolved to eat carbs in the amounts that has become mandated from above and as normal, as we are seeing in our societies in the last 40 or so years. Also, the new fats that were introduced to our diets in order to lower the amount of saturated fats in our diets that became the dietary demon around the same time, uncoincidentally. The amazingly complex diagrams about blood glucose regulation, called the Randle cycle, I have seen and refer to jokingly from time to time, absolutely involve dietary fat. But in those diagrams the raised glucose levels which bring about the raised insulin levels which tip the system way into chaos, seem obviously to be the point where chaos begins. ([URL]https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/randle-cycle[/URL])[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]This is not a personal individual dietary/regulatory phenomenon - this is us being an omniverous mammal. I don't think this is particularly controversial! The degree to which folks can take high carbs with high fat - and I would say - these new fats which we cannot digest properly or well - before their bodies break down is what is individual and different - not that it can break down big time. That is part of us being human and having human bodies which have evolved on certain dietary parameters. This is why type two diabetes is spiralling out of control into being a - dare I say it? - a global big health problem. (And especially in the wake of our big enemy - a very nasty virus - currently being a global health problem.) Anyway - to go low carb, and when one has type two - to go as low sugar and carb as one can (and oh yes, that level can differ enormously between individuals, due, imho, to how sick your fat cells are) is not about not having enough nutrition and energy, ie to not have enough food and going hungry. It is about lowering the very foods (for me - anything with sugar added, and made from milk, and wheat, and I would add - with the new wheat strain,as with the new potatoes, maize and rice - [URL]https://croplife.org/news/the-evolutionary-story-of-four-vital-crops/[/URL] ) that have caused the hugely raised blood glucose levels which caused the insulin cascade and inflammed and sickened my ever expanding fat cells into the state they are in today. ([URL]https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fcvm.2020.00022/full[/URL]). As part of the low-fat eating folk since the late 1970s when it was governmentally mandated in the countries I have lived in, it was not the saturated fat and cholesterol-high food (eggs! for instance, and fatty cuts of meat) I unfortunately was not eating (I believed these governments - one of my greatest regrets), but the sugar and carb-heavy food I substituted, that got me here in this forum discussing this with you all today. [/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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