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<blockquote data-quote="Sean_Raymond" data-source="post: 2355024" data-attributes="member: 403497"><p>I'll quickly explain why I came to the conclusion that Insulin could not be the ultimate cause of fat storage/burning. At this point I am putting the brakes on my view of this until I review a few aspects of this. But this was my thinking prior to having the conversations I had over the past few days.</p><p></p><p>Putting the studies which lower insulin but don't show fat loss aside, quoting Dr Bikman - he says "insulin has a direct effect on how every cell uses energy”. Dr Fung says similar things. Insulin seems to be portrayed as being the ultimate determinant of energy storage/energy burning. Yet the effects of insulin are regulated at hormonal, biochemical and allosteric levels.</p><p></p><p>Energy homeostasis is a complex system made up of peripheral signals from organs and fat tissue and muscles integrated with cellular signals to orchestrate hunger, satiety and whether the body uses or stores energy. Yes, a role of Insulin is to signal to the body to stop fat breakdown (inhibit lipolysis) and promote fat storage (lipogenesis) but it is a signal which the cell is not obliged to follow - insulin is important in energy metabolism but it is just one of the players involved in the burning or storing of energy.</p><p></p><p>The cell is the energy consuming unit of the body and it is here where we can better understand how the decision on what to do with the energy we consume is made. I won't discuss the specific allosteric regulation that occurs at the cellular level as it is very technical but when a cell receives an instruction from Insulin the cell will first look to its energy status before acting on insulin’s directions.</p><p></p><p>That energy status it looks to is made up of a complex ratio of elements and their levels together act as a kind of thermostat to inform the cell of its energy status and whether it needs to store or burn energy. It is this Enzymatic control that ultimately determines the fate of energy not insulin.</p><p></p><p>So it is at this cellular level of control which tells the cell if it should listen to what Insulin is telling it to do or not. If the answer is to burn energy it is the detected ratio of the mentioned elements not insulin that will determine to switch on catabolic pathways whilst switching off fuel utilising pathways to burn fuel. Whilst Insulin does promote fat storage or fat breakdown, it can be thought of as posing a question from which the cell will decide if the answer.</p><p></p><p> It is at this level I never see Dr Bikman or Dr Fung or Dr Watson or anyone else describe - let alone explain how Insulin overcomes this control step for energy metabolism. The release of Insulin is not the be all and end all of fat burning because the body hasn't evolved direct fat burning/storing pathways that simply say yes or no. If Insulin was then the argument is that with the presence of insulin we are unstoppable fat building machines (protein causes insulin release).</p><p></p><p>This is a very basic explanation of how Insulin may tell the body to do something but this order can be overridden if this instruction opposes what is happening at the cellular level . Fatty acid synthesis is tightly regulated and responsive to physiological needs.</p><p></p><p>And if we think about it – this makes sense if we consider the fundamental survival of an organism. In order to survive energy is needed – it makes little sense that the body could then afford to decide to store energy when there is an energy deficit and energy is needed - just because a hormone told you to. Made worse by the fact energy will also be expended creating/storing that fat.</p><p></p><p>I am going back to the mechanisms behind this to see if I can find a way that Insulin (or another mechanism) actually does override allosteric control of energy use in the cell . I accept that I may have something wrong here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sean_Raymond, post: 2355024, member: 403497"] I'll quickly explain why I came to the conclusion that Insulin could not be the ultimate cause of fat storage/burning. At this point I am putting the brakes on my view of this until I review a few aspects of this. But this was my thinking prior to having the conversations I had over the past few days. Putting the studies which lower insulin but don't show fat loss aside, quoting Dr Bikman - he says "insulin has a direct effect on how every cell uses energy”. Dr Fung says similar things. Insulin seems to be portrayed as being the ultimate determinant of energy storage/energy burning. Yet the effects of insulin are regulated at hormonal, biochemical and allosteric levels. Energy homeostasis is a complex system made up of peripheral signals from organs and fat tissue and muscles integrated with cellular signals to orchestrate hunger, satiety and whether the body uses or stores energy. Yes, a role of Insulin is to signal to the body to stop fat breakdown (inhibit lipolysis) and promote fat storage (lipogenesis) but it is a signal which the cell is not obliged to follow - insulin is important in energy metabolism but it is just one of the players involved in the burning or storing of energy. The cell is the energy consuming unit of the body and it is here where we can better understand how the decision on what to do with the energy we consume is made. I won't discuss the specific allosteric regulation that occurs at the cellular level as it is very technical but when a cell receives an instruction from Insulin the cell will first look to its energy status before acting on insulin’s directions. That energy status it looks to is made up of a complex ratio of elements and their levels together act as a kind of thermostat to inform the cell of its energy status and whether it needs to store or burn energy. It is this Enzymatic control that ultimately determines the fate of energy not insulin. So it is at this cellular level of control which tells the cell if it should listen to what Insulin is telling it to do or not. If the answer is to burn energy it is the detected ratio of the mentioned elements not insulin that will determine to switch on catabolic pathways whilst switching off fuel utilising pathways to burn fuel. Whilst Insulin does promote fat storage or fat breakdown, it can be thought of as posing a question from which the cell will decide if the answer. It is at this level I never see Dr Bikman or Dr Fung or Dr Watson or anyone else describe - let alone explain how Insulin overcomes this control step for energy metabolism. The release of Insulin is not the be all and end all of fat burning because the body hasn't evolved direct fat burning/storing pathways that simply say yes or no. If Insulin was then the argument is that with the presence of insulin we are unstoppable fat building machines (protein causes insulin release). This is a very basic explanation of how Insulin may tell the body to do something but this order can be overridden if this instruction opposes what is happening at the cellular level . Fatty acid synthesis is tightly regulated and responsive to physiological needs. And if we think about it – this makes sense if we consider the fundamental survival of an organism. In order to survive energy is needed – it makes little sense that the body could then afford to decide to store energy when there is an energy deficit and energy is needed - just because a hormone told you to. Made worse by the fact energy will also be expended creating/storing that fat. I am going back to the mechanisms behind this to see if I can find a way that Insulin (or another mechanism) actually does override allosteric control of energy use in the cell . I accept that I may have something wrong here. [/QUOTE]
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