FMD - 5 day cycle.

[DCUKMod]

So last nights and this mornings figures - Libre back in operation.
Post meal was 5.2. The only difference between the days has been some peanuts so I am going to do some more testing on those.
But it fell back down by bedtime to 4.5 and 4.4 this morning when I got up much later. (these were all finger prick tests).

Interesting as always to see the Libre overnight pattern - a nice bounce around 3.5 - 4.5. The sensor is about.2mmol out from blood test.

Thought not starving - am looking forward to some eggs and bacon this morning.

Fleegle - My overnights on the Libre are always very low; sometimes flat-lining at 2.2. I think I either lie on it, or it gets a bit warm, si I'm unconcerned about it. The Libre usually suggests I'll have an HbA1c of between 19 and 21, when in reality, I'm usually at abut 31.

As we know, it's a fabulous tool, but like everything else, it can exhibit some imperfections. Your numbers are very good on this WoE, but I'm not sure it would be for me.

 

[Fleegle]

Fleegle - My overnights on the Libre are always very low; sometimes flat-lining at 2.2. I think I either lie on it, or it gets a bit warm, si I'm unconcerned about it. The Libre usually suggests I'll have an HbA1c of between 19 and 21, when in reality, I'm usually at abut 31.

As we know, it's a fabulous tool, but like everything else, it can exhibit some imperfections. Your numbers are very good on this WoE, but I'm not sure it would be for me.

Yes understood. Sometimes mine is flat too but typically I get good overnight readings that go between 4.5 and 5.5.
So perhaps I don't always lie on it - perhaps I toss and turn. As I say yes sometimes I get a low all night flat and I know it is not right.

 

[Fleegle]

Well chuffed where today has gone. It has been anything but a normal day due to visitors and a day out in Chichester as well as purposely trying to eat a little more than average.

So as I said my fasting BG was pretty respectable given my lazy start. Had my benacol but also a bacon, eggs and Mushrooms and a cup of tea. Didn't really impact BGs they seemed to settle ok. Given the big load first thing which I don't typically do I was pleased.

Then a lot of walking around in the sun - always raise BG for me - but nowhere near as normal and I was hot - that was before the downpour! So we ducked into a Costa Coffee. The last time I had a Latte was some weeks ago in Winchester and boy that hit my BG big time - but I wanted a Latte I was with friends and my BG had gone down since Breakfast. Had the Latte - and yes ok it went up to 6.9 from 5.4 but to be honest I had a 4mmol rise last time and could not shake it off.

We did some further walking around - BG went down to 5.9 and kind of settled there for an hour then wosh down to 4.7 a couple of hours after that. I never get a 4.7 that time of day before tea (except when on FMD) so really pleased.

Had dinner - and some ice cream (oppo is it?) and though again it did go up a fair amount really short peek then flying down back to 5.9 again. Off to the pub - a diet coke and one too many peanuts and by time I got home 5.4. Given the meal had a potato (which I have not touched since being diagnosed) and a low carb Yorkshire pudding - great. Now I know the peanuts will get me later - so see what my FBG is tomorrow morning and a more typical day of under indulgence.

For me 20g carbs a day is a lot - and today I think I have been well over 50 and my BG got nowhere near 7.8 - max of 7 for a brief peek after a large dinner.

There was another reason for this bigger than average day - I had read that you need to feed after the fast and so I was prepared to have some bigger meals today - tomorrow is another day and back to LCHF for me.

 

[ringi]

This sounds about right as you would have emptied your liver and muscles of glycogen along with using your muscles for walking – hence greatly increased your short term insulin sensitivity. But once you fill your glycogen store up again you will be like before your fast.

However you will have burned off some of the fat in your liver while fasting, so make the space to store glycogen a little bigger, likewise with your muscle cells. Hence each cycle builds on the progress of the cycle before leading to much better long term insulin sensitivity.

And if the beta cells regenerate so much better

 

[Fleegle]

This sounds about right as you would have emptied your liver and muscles of glycogen along with using your muscles for walking – hence greatly increased your short term insulin sensitivity. But once you fill your glycogen store up again you will be like before your fast.

However you will have burned off some of the fat in your liver while fasting, so make the space to store glycogen a little bigger, likewise with your muscle cells. Hence each cycle builds on the progress of the cycle before leading to much better long term insulin sensitivity.

And if the beta cells regenerate so much better

Thanks @ringi that was very informative and fits with what I found. The question I wondered was how long before the next cycle? I read in the study of mice that it was about 6 weeks feed cycle to 1 week fast cycle but my memory on it is not clear.

 

[Fleegle]

Just a final update on my progress - not going to post any more results now.
This is what yesterday looked like - very different pattern for me. But only one day and a lot more work to do to improve things much further. Key though was the falls - which were sharper than I had seen previously and the lower rises for events that I know previously have had a large impact on my BG.

Perhaps more progress in the next cycle - or maybe a week of 600 calories tells me I could have a good go a the ND.

The blue range is between 4.6 and 6.4. That is what I like to stay in all day if I can.
The white dots are where you do a sensor scan - lots of activity yesterday due to trying to micro manage what was happening. The black stars, just a couple are actual blood tests using the Libre. Note how close they are to the line. They are not always this close but I often find that the gap is in .'s of mmol - perhaps .2 or .3.

 

[DCUKMod]

@Fleegle - Do you realise you can download your Libre data, to see your 15 minute tracking, provided you scan at least every 8 hours? It can save a lot of scanning, although I do appreciate that immediate feedback of the scanning information is useful.

 

[Fleegle]

@Fleegle - Do you realise you can download your Libre data, to see your 15 minute tracking, provided you scan at least every 8 hours? It can save a lot of scanning, although I do appreciate that immediate feedback of the scanning information is useful.

yes - that is what that graph is. I was only scanning so much because I wanted to understand peeks and troughs in real-time.

 

[Bluetit1802]

@Fleegle

The 15 minute log isn't a graph. It is a text document you can copy or export to a spreadsheet.

 

[Fleegle]

@Fleegle

The 15 minute log isn't a graph. It is a text document you can copy or export to a spreadsheet.

Sorry - yes I know that too - mixed up there.
I wrote a macro ages ago to strip out everything but the 15min data so I could mess about with it in excel. But in the end I found the data you get from the tools to be about as much as I need. I just dumped the graph this morning for real ease.

 

[DCUKMod]

yes - that is what that graph is. I was only scanning so much because I wanted to understand peeks and troughs in real-time.

As Bluetit says, the data download is actually just a csv file, with the background 15 minute numbers noted.

I just opened a random file from my own data. The data download looks like this:

Apologies, if you know this already.

Sorry, Fleegle, out posts sort of crossed, but I'll leave this here, in case it helps others considering the Libre to support their experimentation/management.

 

[ringi]

Thanks @ringi that was very informative and fits with what I found. The question I wondered was how long before the next cycle? I read in the study of mice that it was about 6 weeks feed cycle to 1 week fast cycle but my memory on it is not clear.

If you have lot of weight to lose, why not start the next cycle on Monday and do one cycle a week until you hit your weight target? (2:5 instead of the normal 5:2 but check you are having enough salt as lots of people get issues with it)

Then switch to doing two fasting days a week along with limiting how much carbs you have on most of the other days.

 

[Fleegle]

If you have lot of weight to lose, why not start the next cycle on Monday and do one cycle a week until you hit your weight target? (2:5 instead of the normal 5:2 but check you are having enough salt as lots of people get issues with it)

Then switch to doing two fasting days a week along with limiting how much carbs you have on most of the other days.

Yes - I was thinking of doing that - but I wanted to follow the FMD which is about a period of feed between fasts. I think the feed part is as important as the fast part. The document isn't that clear particularly as it is only mice they have tried it on.

On the other hand - I have seen a lot about just going into ketosis to regenerate beta cells - reduce fats in liver an pancreas and reduce insulin resistance.

Tricky - also only about 10lbs to lose now.

 

[ringi]

It has been well proven that ketosis reduces insulin resistance etc but very little is known about regenerating beta cells. (Some of the best outcomes have been from an 8 week very low calc diet without any feeding days. But lot of people put the weight back on at the end as it is seen as a “one off”.)

Hence personally I would go with what is proven until near the target weight, and then increase the length of feeding between the fasts. The concept of fasting in the week, but eating what you like at the weekend does seem to be simple provided you can keep to the week day fasts.

Maybe once you have got your target weight even do LCHF on week days and eat freely at the weekends.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Oh if you are near your target weight, believe me, you have to plan well in advance of reaching it. I found it harder to stop losing on low carb than losing it in the first place. But I got there in the end.

 

[DCUKMod]

@Fleegle - I totally agree with @Bluetit1802 .

I personally found myself trying very hard for several weeks (actually 2-3 months) to halt weight loss. I have ended up pretty slight, and skirt around a BMI of 18.5, watching like a hawk that I'm not dropping again.

I really didn't want to get into a yo-yo dieting situation, so I have accepted my bony body and very modest lady-bumps.

With 10lbs to go, would it be worthwhile considering a brief period of balancing your weight, at stable, before having a crack at the last 10 lbs?

Whatever you choose to do, you certainly take it seriously. Good luck with it all.

 

[Fleegle]

@Fleegle - I totally agree with @Bluetit1802 .

I personally found myself trying very hard for several weeks (actually 2-3 months) to halt weight loss. I have ended up pretty slight, and skirt around a BMI of 18.5, watching like a hawk that I'm not dropping again.

I really didn't want to get into a yo-yo dieting situation, so I have accepted my bony body and very modest lady-bumps.

With 10lbs to go, would it be worthwhile considering a brief period of balancing your weight, at stable, before having a crack at the last 10 lbs?

Whatever you choose to do, you certainly take it seriously. Good luck with it all.

@ringi , @Bluetit1802 , @DCUKMod
Thanks for the advice. I have just been for a walk and was chewing things over and I came back to these three posts and it kind of cemented my mind. I was thinking - with two weeks to go before my summer break - that I would do something during the weeks but the 600 calorie felt a bit to strong. I had it in my mind to go for a week of 800 - then weekend off - then a week of 1200 before my holiday. Not that my holiday will be a carb fest or anything but it will top the 2k calories a day I think.

When I say I have 10lbs to lose - this puts my in the right space for BMI (which you can take or leave I know) but I will still have some of my belly fat to lose so no danger in the next 6 weeks I don't think I prefer the height waist measure and I have a whole three inches to go there.

Once again thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[DCUKMod]

@ringi , @Bluetit1802 , @DCUKMod
Thanks for the advice. I have just been for a walk and was chewing things over and I came back to these three posts and it kind of cemented my mind. I was thinking - with two weeks to go before my summer break - that I would do something during the weeks but the 600 calorie felt a bit to strong. I had it in my mind to go for a week of 800 - then weekend off - then a week of 1200 before my holiday. Not that my holiday will be a carb fest or anything but it will top the 2k calories a day I think.

When I say I have 10lbs to lose - this puts my in the right space for BMI (which you can take or leave I know) but I will still have some of my belly fat to lose so no danger in the next 6 weeks I don't think I prefer the height waist measure and I have a whole three inches to go there.

Once again thank you for taking the time to respond.

Wherever anyone sets their own target is such a personal thing. I must admit, I had set me target to be quite low, to allow myself a bit of wiggle room for a modest gain, when going into maintenance mode. That last bit just didn't happen for me!

I agree that BMI is a pretty blunt instrument, in terms of a metric, but it's an easy one. I have looked at the height/waist thing, and I'm fine on that too.

On a matter of detail, about the last thing that happened for me (but forgive me, I can't recall exactly when), was for my waist to really "go in". I had always been pretty off-rectangular in therms of my torso, whereas now I have a waist.

Do you have body composition scales, to give you an indication of your physical make up and visceral fat? When I started weighing in (almost 4 months post-diagnosis, as weight loss was never a goal for me), I bought some scales to give me more information, and these days, I keep a good eye on my visceral fat (for obvious reasons).

Whichever way you decide to finish skinning this particular cat, I'm sure you'll do just fine.