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Freezing bread then toasting it to lower GI?

R

Rosie9876

Well-Known Member
Messages
172
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I've read that freezing bread then toasting it lowers its GI. I don't yet have a glucose monitor to test its effect, and would appreciate feedback from anyone who's tried it. I'm working on reducing my carbs and A1c on 16/8 intermittent fasting, but not inclined to go very low or carb free. So far, I'm making progress, but not huge. Thanks in advance for your input.
 
I can’t say I have noticed any difference . I have to have gluten free bread, but whether I freeze it or not it still sends my blood sugars high.
 
Taking GI into account seemed to make no difference at all for me.
I stick to lower carb as it gives me a lot of choices for meals, and eating at 12 hourly intervals seemed to be a better idea than fasting for longer intervals - my experiment with slimming shake and small meals in a 2 or 3 hour time slot resulted in Higher than expected HbA1c levels - only a little but it put me just into type 2 range which was quite a shock.
These days I would far rather have bubble and squeak made with swede and egg, plus bacon or cheese, than a bacon sandwich, for instance. Once low carb becomes a habit is seems the only sensible way to eat.
 
It really works a lot better if you freeze it, toast it and then don't eat it at all.
GI as a measure is all and good, but you might want to reflect on the thought that the sugar industry really got behind the idea of GI - mainly because it takes the pressure off them, because really for us, the glycaemic load is the important thing - any sugar or starch you eat needs insulin to deal with it - the less insulin you need, the better control, the easier to control, the more likely remission - any goal that you have is easier to reach if you lower the amount that you ask your body to deal with.

GI is really a marketing tool for the sugar industry. In a person with a totally healthy metabolism (ie, not us) then a low GI food will cause less of a glucose spike than a high GI food... but it isn't as helpful for us.

That really isn't to preach, and everyone has to make their own choices... it's really that any sugar and starch may be desirable, but it just makes everything else so much more difficult.
 
Everyone reacts differently to carbs, frozen, toasted or otherwise. The only way to find out what works for you is to test, investing in a meter will answer your question for you.
 
"It really works a lot better if you freeze it, toast it and then don't eat it at all" gosh there was me awaiting the big eureka moment then I just fell about laughing at the reality of your response I also agree that the GI is a big marketing ploy, I gave up on it years ago.
 
Thanks - but for anyone who didn't find it funny - I really don't mean to be self-righteous or preachy...

- it's kind of a mental shorthand I've taken on to being able to interpret all of the (somewhat deliberately) confusing marketing surrounding "good" , "bad" or "super" foods - there is a constant stream of articles that talk about "avoid this one food to do...." or "eat this one thing to better do..."

And to some extent - it's all designed to keep us totally confused - how can anyone keep in their mind all of the individual foods that jump up and down the naughty or nice scale from one week to the next? - it's impossible, and it's a game that is stacked against us actually winning.

so - rather than try to accommodate all of the relative information - be simple and binary. Doest this food contain sugar or starch? - then no. Is this stuff not really food, then no.

it just cuts down on all the otherwise impossible mental chatter - can I eat this thing if I first have some apple cider vinegar, then spin around three times and invoke the little god of blood glucose control while standing one leg, then going for a walk after .... well, you might, but it's really all about getting you to eat the thing... then the hormones that are released afterward make it more likely that in a couple of hours you will want another, but be less likely to do the whole ritual again.

the food industry knows that if they can get you to have the thing, you will be more likely to have it again, because it's delicious, and it will trigger stuff in your body that will want you to have another. That isn't conspiracy, folks, it's just business.

It's just so much easier not engaging - does it contain sugar or starch ? then no.

That leaves so much left over to work with. I've taken to having pre-sliced edam with paté as a kind of sandwich substitute - it's fantastic, and zero sugar or starch so my blood glucose just stays flat - which just makes everything else that much easier.

We all tend to twist this whole thing around (and, you know; I was just like this myself, if you read any criticism in this, consider it pointing at me) - what difficult things do I need to do in order to eat the things I want - when it should be; what can I eat to make things as easy as possible to be in my best health.
 
I remember some time ago reading about how freezing bread then toasting it before eating it, reduces the effect on blood glucose levels.
This article has some info, which may or may not be of use.

BBC One - The Truth About... - 10 things you may not know about carbs

Facts and figures on all things carb related
www.bbc.co.uk
As someone who finds toast a comfort food, especially when ill, (which is frequently, lately) I am interested in what sort of effects others have experienced.
 
It's a good article - but highly - highly .... pushing the idea, that if you do all these things, then this food is really so much better for you... wouldn't it be nice ... go on, you know you want it...

Essentially - if you freeze and reheat then it slows down absorption because some of the starch becomes indigestible in the stomach, and it feeds your gut bacteria instead - leading to 30% less chance of bowel cancer... sounds great, what' not to love about that?

Well, this change only affects 5% of the starch - so whatever you start with - 95% of that is going straight to your liver and still spiking your insulin and blood glucose - still sound great?

Then - the stuff that your gut bacteria produces, that's so protective of bowel cancer? (firstly, I suspect the use of relative risk here, meaning a much smaller actual risk reduction) - that stuff is hydroxy butyrate - they don't mention it by name, maybe because it's so similar to beta hydroxy butyrate, otherwise known as BHB - or ketone bodies. Which you are perfectly capable of producing yourself. In other words, you are much better (from a cancer perspective anyway) having a teaspoon of coconut oil rather than a slice of toast, because some of that will be turned into ketones... and you'll feel more satisfied to boot.

Plus - that 95% of the digestible starch will hold you in elevated insulin - which is associated with risk of bowel cancer - so it's swings and roundabouts.

Then - that 5% of the starch - you've taken stuff that would normally be absorbed in the stomach, and turned it into stuff that has to pass through the rest of your digestive system, where it's not really supposed to be, and rotting all the way down (what do you think happens when you are feeding it to your gut bacteria? by definition, you cannot now digest it, so it has to rot) - I mean your gut bacteria may be happy, but if you suffer from irritable bowel disease you may be less happy - or on the way to developing it.

but - it's just a slice of toast - what can the harm be...?

- sorry - don't mean to be alarmist - just that these kinds of articles are all about the presentation - I'm only re-interpreting through a different lens - it's all the same stuff, but if you look at it this way - are you more or less likely to want that slice of toast, compared to reading that BBC article? just saying...
 
Chris24Main said:
Plus - that 95% of the digestible starch will hold you in elevated insulin - which is associated with risk of bowel cancer - so it's swings and roundabouts.
Click to expand...
That could be different for different individuals, and best determined by individuals testing their own, unique, responses. As already mentioned in the thread by @Rachox.
 
Sure - I'm all in favour of testing, and to be clear - I do really just mean "elevated" - whatever that means will be different for different people. Also - association is not causation, so I should be clear that I'm not saying that anything will cause anything.

But - I suppose I'm just using the same kind of language as the article you quoted - it's deliberately as justifiable as saying that freezing your toast will reduce your risk of colon cancer by 30%.
 
Of course, @Chris24Main , I am no fan of the popular media science guys , who don’t seem to consider the impact of the simplistic messages they portray, and the previous article I quoted is , in my opinion, one of those.
The point I was making is that there have been studies supporting the theory that freezing bread before toasting and eating it, could lower the impact on BG levels. It is up to individuals to appraise the research themselves and not just take at face value what somebody high profile is saying, particularly if they are just giving scant details.
This is slightly more detailed,

The impact of freezing and toasting on the glycaemic response of white bread - PubMed

All three procedures investigated, freezing and defrosting, toasting from fresh, and toasting following freezing and defrosting, favourably altered the glucose response of the breads. This is the first study known to the authors to show reductions in glycaemic response as a result of changes in...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

but I would still test the theory for oneself, should the desire for a slice of toast be overwhelming. . Fortunately I have, and can allow myself a weekly treat of toasted , seeded wholemeal bread, that has been previously frozen. unless I am ill and unable to tolerate much food, then toast is my go to solution. I don’t recommend indulging, just on the evidence presented. I do advocate testing individual responses to foods and adjusting diet accordingly, as the reductionist articles that generalise about how individuals might react to carbs, or any aspect of their health management are unhelpful.
 
Absolutely - and for what it's worth - I do agree with you. I'd be the very worst kind of hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge that even writing about toast is making my mouth water for a slice of toast...
 
Interestingly enough - there is more in that article - you get more benefit from the homemade bread than the shop-bought, in fact, the shop bought bread makes almost no difference freezing first, you get about the same benefit from toasting as freezing-then-toasting.
 
I found your 'freeze it, toast it, then don't eat it' reply slightly amusing, but a little more than slightly hostile. This is meant to be a LOW carb discussion and you sounded like the NO carb police. I don't want to go on a carnivore diet for various reasons, therefore must take carb counting into account, so I was looking for other people's experience, if any.

At one time, anything but a a high complex carb, low fat, low protein diet was derided, with frequent small meals recommended and intermittent fasting a no-no. So take your meds to achieve a slower decline. Unfortunately I followed the advice for years, I The lesson should be don't jump to conclusions, follow the evidence, especially long term, and the "science" might be profoundly mistaken.

Here is an article showing freezing and toasting bread significantly lowers the GI. My bread of choice is sourdough. I will get around to getting a glucose monitor. Meanwhile, I'm keen to hear of others' actual experiences. Thank you. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17426743/
 
Thanks @Rosie9876 - let me stress again that I don't mean to be preachy or self righteous - I'm sorry if you found it that way. The pubmed article you quote is exactly what @Pipp quoted earlier - and it's totally valid. it will reduce the total amount of glucose you need to deal with.

I'm trying (and clearly failing) to show that many of the articles we get bombarded with every day, are written in a way that seems the very opposite of slightly hostile - they nudge things one way and then the other, to the point that it becomes difficult to know what to take seriously any more - but if you take it one step further, and see that this has always been the point - it's deliberately to keep you confused (and I say that only as someone who has read maybe a half dozen books focused on the histories of the various factions of the food and tabacco and sugar industries, but really, that doesn't give me any more right to have an opinion than anyone else).

for me... I find it easier not to do that and so to bring it down to binary choices - sugar or starch, then no.
Just as if I was a recovering alcoholic - is wine better than spirit? maybe, but if it has alcohol in it, then no.
But - that isn't the right or correct thing to do - I'm just saying that for me that makes things easier...
 
@Rosie9876 ,
A few things I have noticed from your posts. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You have had T2 for quite some time?
You are age 80?
You are on Metformin only?
You have reduced your HbA1c from 88 to 62 in three months?
You haven’t used a meter to test blood glucose, but intend to, soon?
You have reduced carbs, but don’t want to go very low carb, or carb free?

Sorry, for my questions. Do you have regular retinopathy and foot tests, and have you any signs of diabetic complications?

I am asking so that we have better understanding of your situation in order to provide useful info for you. Although awaiting your responses, I will briefly give some info, I believe could be relevant to you.

To different people the term ‘low carb’ means different things. To some it is less than 20g of carbs a day. To others, including DCUK Low Carb Program, up to 130g of carbs a day. It appears you would prefer to use the latter definition. Which is absolutely fine. Though, again I would make the point that individuals will get better idea of their own personal carb tolerance by recording what they eat, and also recording blood glucose levels immediately on waking, then before food, and two hours after each meal. You will see patterns emeging, that will enable you to determine how your choice of food is affecting you.

I would also note, with respect, that those of us ‘senior’ folks, I include myself in that definition, have less need to achieve really low HbA1c, due to having less of our lifespan left for serious diabetes complications to set in, than someone 50 years younger. I found this article interesting regarding HbA1c targets for older people. Which made me change perspective from always aiming to get to the lower non-diabetes level of HbA1c below 41. I am content with my recent 44.


I have digressed from your topic , though, so rather than be at risk of my moderator colleagues having to edit for derailing I will finish with the following.

Over time, my Blood glucose response to carb foods has changed. I can, currently tolerate seeded wholemeal bread, toasted from the freezer or fried in bacon fat, with no impact. I limit this sort of bread to a maximum of two slices a week, because I feel that it could quite easily become a daily habit. I do use lowcarb bread once or twice a week, because of convenience, and it is almost as good as thevseeded wholemeal. Rice cooked any way, and pasta, has me falling asleep, within 30 minutes, so I am not able to test after then, because I could sleep for a couple of hours. Potatoes give a slight rise, which settles within the two hour margin. Sugar and sweet food is never part of my diet.

I hope you will continue to update on the progress of your toast from the freezer experiment, and that you will see improvement in your diabetes management.


Pipp: edit for typo, though I don’t doubt I missed a few more.
 
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Here is an update to my post asking if freezing bread then toasting it lowers its GI. By no means my suggestion on what others should do, and I still don't have a glucose monitor, so I can't definitively say how I react to frozen then toasted sourdough bread. BUT my HbA1c result today is 50mmol/mol or 6.7%, compared with 62mmol/mol 7.8% just one month ago. Frequent testing as getting ready for major surgery.

My diet since Oct 2024, when my HbA1c was 88, has been low-ish carb, and including the toast, one large slice practically every day. I'm not restricting calories as I don't need to lose much weight. My body fat isn't generally high except around my belly, but I obviously have a lot of visceral fat because I've been a T2 diabetic for a long time.

If my A1c continues to go down, I would have to think the frozen toasted sourdough agrees with me. My thought on why nothing worked for such a long time, then I'm suddenly improving: I've made these main changes: I've reduced carbs and moderately increased fat and protein. (A low protein diet had been prescribed for kidney stones.) And I'm following 16/8 intermittent fasting, not religiously but regularly. I want to reverse my diabetes and go off pills, which my doctor said was impossible and on the contrary increased prescription.

This forum is inspiring. Thank you all.
 
Well done @Rosie9876 on your reduction in HbA1c.
A glucose monitor used regularly could give you some very relevant data, too.

Your quest to come off medication I also understand and as I advance in years, feel the same way. Some medical professionals, and indeed general public are still of the opinion that there is a pill for every ill. However, and I will stress here I do not advocate going against medical advice regarding medication, as we get older polypharmacy can cause more problems than it solves. Of particular concern to me is the classification of frailty that is used. I discovered , by a chance check of my GP record just after my 65th birthday, that the GPs were being instructed to run a program on patient records for those of us over 65 to assess frailty. The assessment allocated by computer algorithm , without consultation can be impacted by such things as number of medical conditions, number of precribed medications, any impairments such as hearing loss etc. In my experience there was a mismatch which was quite shocking, as someone who is quite independent in most daily activities, and regulary exercises in gym and swimming pool.


I don’t wish to take the thread off topic, though. My main point, (sorry @Rosie9876 ) is that those of us ‘senior years’ need to be taken seriously regarding our capacity to be treated as equal partners regarding choices of medication requirements. Too many prescribed medications can be harmful. I am not suggesting all meds are, but we ought to be able to have conversations with the medical professionals who are caring for us. I have had discussions with a clinical phamacist, attachedto my GP surgery, and made it clear to him that I will question the need for any meds suggested to me, due to my concerns about polyphamacy. The following article probaby explaind this better than I can.




I am thinking that some of these posts are now veering away from the original topic, though.
As the Original Poster of this thread, @Rosie9876 , should you wish to have the topic of your reduction in medication in a separate thread, just say so, and moderators can move it for you.
 
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