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Type 2 From remission to needing meds

AlanJ72

Newbie
Hello,

I was diagnosed type 2 a long time ago, 12 years I think, but have always managed to keep it under control with diet, enough to be shifted into remission/pre-diabetes a couple of years back.

After successfully avoiding it for 3 years (I was on the original screening list) I got covid in Feb and had symptoms that match long-covid ever since. In May the doctors did full bloods and found my Vit D & folate low but HbA1c up a lot to 54 mmol/mol (December test it was 41). My latest test at the start of Nov show my Vit D & folate normal again but B12 now a bit low and the HbA1c at 53.

The doctors seem more interested in treating the symptoms, even as far as saying I need to adjust diet and activity even though the exact same d&a had kept things in check for a decade. They don't seem to want to deal with the elephant in the room, covid. Before covid everything was managed, post covid it isn't. I know the research is showing mixed results regarding links between covid and an increase in diabetes but there is still the old when body is fighting infection/illness it releases more glucose which when you have diabetes means higher blood sugars.

Sadly I feel like they just aren't listening to me and simply throwing medicine at the problem, don't get me wrong something needs to be done to get my blood sugars right but to ignore an obvious cause is stupid. Over twenty years ago I had a breakdown (first of a few) and spent years getting treatment for depression and by treatment I mean meds, was supposidly put on the waiting list for therapy but it never occurred until I hit a very chaotic period that basically forced their hand. During the therapy it became very obvious I was autistic and I finally got an official diagnosis 7 years ago. But another example of being let down by the NHS (oddly I'll happily defend the NHS despite often falling through the cracks).

So onto my question, anyone else had covid and found their diabetes got a lot worse?
 
Hi, after being off medication from 2020, the other day my reading was high, so now back on tablets.

Can you have Robinsons double strength Apple and blackcurrant squash drink?
 
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Hi @AlanJ72 While I'm a strong believer in avoiding medication if alternatives will do the trick, I also think it wise to take medication if you need it.
If the doctors can't cure your long-covid, then it's wise to accept diabetes medication if you need it provided no/tolerable side effects.
 
Hi, after being off medication from 2020, the other day my reading was high, so now back on tablets.

Can you have Robinsons double strength Apple and blackcurrant squash drink?
A one off reading caused this or an hba1c?

what is the benefit of that drink? It doesn’t lower levels.

ps your profile suggests you are on insulin yet you mention tablets. Could you amend your profile to make it correct as otherwise it’ll lead to confusion and quite possibly inappropriate for your situation opinions.
 
Hello,

I was diagnosed type 2 a long time ago, 12 years I think, but have always managed to keep it under control with diet, enough to be shifted into remission/pre-diabetes a couple of years back.

After successfully avoiding it for 3 years (I was on the original screening list) I got covid in Feb and had symptoms that match long-covid ever since. In May the doctors did full bloods and found my Vit D & folate low but HbA1c up a lot to 54 mmol/mol (December test it was 41). My latest test at the start of Nov show my Vit D & folate normal again but B12 now a bit low and the HbA1c at 53.

The doctors seem more interested in treating the symptoms, even as far as saying I need to adjust diet and activity even though the exact same d&a had kept things in check for a decade. They don't seem to want to deal with the elephant in the room, covid. Before covid everything was managed, post covid it isn't. I know the research is showing mixed results regarding links between covid and an increase in diabetes but there is still the old when body is fighting infection/illness it releases more glucose which when you have diabetes means higher blood sugars.

Sadly I feel like they just aren't listening to me and simply throwing medicine at the problem, don't get me wrong something needs to be done to get my blood sugars right but to ignore an obvious cause is stupid. Over twenty years ago I had a breakdown (first of a few) and spent years getting treatment for depression and by treatment I mean meds, was supposidly put on the waiting list for therapy but it never occurred until I hit a very chaotic period that basically forced their hand. During the therapy it became very obvious I was autistic and I finally got an official diagnosis 7 years ago. But another example of being let down by the NHS (oddly I'll happily defend the NHS despite often falling through the cracks).

So onto my question, anyone else had covid and found their diabetes got a lot worse?

Alan, thus far, I have not knowingly had Covid. What I wanted to ask was, what would you like to see happen about your continuing challenges, you believe to be related to Covid? What sort of treatment would you hope for for that?
 
Hi, after being off medication from 2020, the other day my reading was high, so now back on tablets.

Can you have Robinsons double strength Apple and blackcurrant squash drink?
Hi @Billyboysouth

Well done in getting off your medication in 2020, that’s a great achievement do you know what happened to raise your BG back to you needing meds again?

Do you know the carbs in the squash? It’s difficult to answer without having that information

Your about info is a bit confusing as under your name it says you are on insulin but your saying you are now on tablets, if you don’t mind could you confirm what meds you are on at the present time as this makes it much easier and safer for forum members to share advice and their experiences . Advice is very different for someone on insulin or hypo inducing drugs compared to diet only or other medications.

If you need help changing your about info under your name just shout out and someone will help you :)
 
Alan, thus far, I have not knowingly had Covid. What I wanted to ask was, what would you like to see happen about your continuing challenges, you believe to be related to Covid? What sort of treatment would you hope for for that?
I'm not a doctor, I don't know what is or is not available to treat long covid. I have no problems taking the medication, what I object to is the doctors ignoring that everything changed after I got covid.

Perhaps it is because I'm autistic and used to work in a very analytical job but ignoring a major event is dangerous.
 
Yes my BG control has been much harder since having Covid. It appears to improve a little, then I catch Covid or something else again. Like you, I have had no help with Long Covid (or Covid itself) either. I was diagnosed T2 around the same time as you and have been diet controlled except for a couple of spells of taking metformin.
 
I'm not a doctor, I don't know what is or is not available to treat long covid. I have no problems taking the medication, what I object to is the doctors ignoring that everything changed after I got covid.

Perhaps it is because I'm autistic and used to work in a very analytical job but ignoring a major event is dangerous.
Alan, I did have a friend who was officially diagnosed with Long Covid. She was referred to a Long Covid clinic, but to be honest, in her view there wasn't a huge amount of help available, and after 6 months, whilst still experiencing symptoms, she was discharged.

Sadly, some folks who have experienced very serious cases of Covid have been left with some systemic damage, but for most, it appears to be a form of post-viral fatigue which usually eases over time.

My thoughts, as an analytical lay person would be, for the shorter term, to address your identified deficiencies, as they have the potential to significantly impact on your quality of life, and how well your body functions. For example, Vitamin D is important for decent metabolic health. A deficiency in that alone can impact.

I don't know if you actually have the results for your Vitamin D, folate or B12 tests, but those are important.

In my view, the "acceptable" NHS levels for Vitamin D are somewhat low, and at this time of year your opportunities to to make Vitamin D, based on sunshine, are limited at best.

Whilst you have bloods that are out of kilter, it will not be easy to identify exactly what is going on with you.

The harsh reality is when it comes to medicine, often a binary Yes/No, Right/Wrong answer doesn't exist.

So, my overall advice would be, to work on your diet. That is critical to everything. Address your wonky bloods, then of you still feel you are suffering the after effecta of Covid, go back to the Doc the challenge it, but in doing things in that order, you have ammunition to suggest you have done your bit, now it's his/her turn to take it forward.
 
A one off reading caused this or an hba1c?

what is the benefit of that drink? It doesn’t lower levels.

ps your profile suggests you are on insulin yet you mention tablets. Could you amend your profile to make it correct as otherwise it’ll lead to confusion and quite possibly inappropriate for your situation opinions.

Hadn’t noticed that re insulin, thanks
 
Alan, I did have a friend who was officially diagnosed with Long Covid. She was referred to a Long Covid clinic, but to be honest, in her view there wasn't a huge amount of help available, and after 6 months, whilst still experiencing symptoms, she was discharged.

Sadly, some folks who have experienced very serious cases of Covid have been left with some systemic damage, but for most, it appears to be a form of post-viral fatigue which usually eases over time.

My thoughts, as an analytical lay person would be, for the shorter term, to address your identified deficiencies, as they have the potential to significantly impact on your quality of life, and how well your body functions. For example, Vitamin D is important for decent metabolic health. A deficiency in that alone can impact.

I don't know if you actually have the results for your Vitamin D, folate or B12 tests, but those are important.

In my view, the "acceptable" NHS levels for Vitamin D are somewhat low, and at this time of year your opportunities to to make Vitamin D, based on sunshine, are limited at best.

Whilst you have bloods that are out of kilter, it will not be easy to identify exactly what is going on with you.

The harsh reality is when it comes to medicine, often a binary Yes/No, Right/Wrong answer doesn't exist.

So, my overall advice would be, to work on your diet. That is critical to everything. Address your wonky bloods, then of you still feel you are suffering the after effecta of Covid, go back to the Doc the challenge it, but in doing things in that order, you have ammunition to suggest you have done your bit, now it's his/her turn to take it forward.
Yeah like I've said I have no problems taking the meds.

Vit D went from 36 to 99
Folate 2.6 to 14.3
B12 230 down to 167

Oddly my diet is one the nutritionist at the GP surgery and the diabetic nurse at the time were happy with but it may need further adjusting if this is the new norm for me. If I stop feeling perma-exhausted I'll be able to do my cycling again (mainly on a trainer in the garage but also outdoors, I'm a fair weather cyclist!) which in turn will help. I also bowl indoors but lasting 1 hour into a 2 hour game before really struggling. Use to bowl outdoors as well but my body struggles with hot weather and regulating heat.
 
Hi @Billyboysouth

Well done in getting off your medication in 2020, that’s a great achievement do you know what happened to raise your BG back to you needing meds again?

Do you know the carbs in the squash? It’s difficult to answer without having that information

Your about info is a bit confusing as under your name it says you are on insulin but your saying you are now on tablets, if you don’t mind could you confirm what meds you are on at the present time as this makes it much easier and safer for forum members to share advice and their experiences . Advice is very different for someone on insulin or hypo inducing drugs compared to diet only or other medications.

If you need help changing your about info under your name just shout out and someone will help you :)

Not sure, was feeling a bit low so took a test, it was a really high reading.

Contacted 111 and the doctor suggested I went into the local A & E early the next morning. This I did and during my treatment was given two doses of insulin at various times and then a 500 g Metformin tablet which I am now on twice a day.

During my conversation with the doctor he mentioned having cordial drinks plus the usual ones, water, tea, coffee and skimmed milk.

Also now going to see my practice diabetic nurse for a full assessmen.

Re the carbs, is says negligible amounts of carbs. At the moment I have Robinsons orange double strength no added sugar. The traffic lights are all showing green.

Sorry for the confusion.
 
Thanks for reply @Billyboysouth

I use those occasionally and they don’t affect my BG, usually have them with a meal, some people do find they can raise their blood sugar so it’s best to test to find out if personally they are ok for you
 
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During my conversation with the doctor he mentioned having cordial drinks plus the usual ones, water, tea, coffee and skimmed milk.

........................................................................

Re the carbs, is says negligible amounts of carbs. At the moment I have Robinsons orange double strength no added sugar. The traffic lights are all showing green.

.......................
Cordials can vary a lot, so don't assume that they are all OK.

Don't pay any attention to the 'Traffic lights'. They make no sense for Type 2 diabetic.
They consider salt to be bad for us, but on a Low carb diet you are almost certainly eating fewer Ready Meals - which means eating a lot less salt (as well as les sugar). Worse, carbs promote water retention and the water hold electrolytes (sodium, potassium, magnesium are the main ones). So unless we increase our salt intake (can increase Potassium at the same time by using 'lo salt' or own brand version) you will suffer from 'Keto flu' until your body adjusts.
It isn't the sugar in the Traffic Light on the front that matters, its the Carbohydrates shown on the back which is often many times higher! You can ignore the 'Of which sugars' part.
 
Yeah like I've said I have no problems taking the meds.

Vit D went from 36 to 99
Folate 2.6 to 14.3
B12 230 down to 167

Oddly my diet is one the nutritionist at the GP surgery and the diabetic nurse at the time were happy with but it may need further adjusting if this is the new norm for me. If I stop feeling perma-exhausted I'll be able to do my cycling again (mainly on a trainer in the garage but also outdoors, I'm a fair weather cyclist!) which in turn will help. I also bowl indoors but lasting 1 hour into a 2 hour game before really struggling. Use to bowl outdoors as well but my body struggles with hot weather and regulating heat.

Extreme fatigue is a symptom of low B12, low thyroid, and armfulls of other things.

The NHS lab used in my area "normal" range for B12 starts at 220. If it is similar in yours, your B12 is indeed low.
 
Can you have Robinsons double strength Apple and blackcurrant squash drink?
I obsessed on this squash for a while, it was my go-to drink pre-diagnosis.

The Robinson's double strength no added sugar (1.75ltr) contains 70 servings, meaning a suggested serving is 25ml. It's 1.2g carbs per 100ml, so 0.3g carbs per 25ml serving.

I eventually just tried it and tested it with my BG meter. It has no effect on my BG levels, at least not that I can detect with a meter reading. I only use 50ml diluted per litre of water though, I've never been one for strong squash. It's also not the only thing I drink, I have water mainly and have this squash to break up the boredom of plain water.
 
Yeah like I've said I have no problems taking the meds.

Vit D went from 36 to 99
Folate 2.6 to 14.3
B12 230 down to 167

Oddly my diet is one the nutritionist at the GP surgery and the diabetic nurse at the time were happy with but it may need further adjusting if this is the new norm for me. If I stop feeling perma-exhausted I'll be able to do my cycling again (mainly on a trainer in the garage but also outdoors, I'm a fair weather cyclist!) which in turn will help. I also bowl indoors but lasting 1 hour into a 2 hour game before really struggling. Use to bowl outdoors as well but my body struggles with hot weather and regulating heat.
That b12 is seriously low. Even the appallingly low nhs range would usually have this marked as deficient.

Many countries have a minimum of 500. People are frequently symptomatic in ways you describe below that level. Also it assumes a “normal” amount of that serum level is active and available and quite often it’s not. The nhs will soon be using active levels rather than serum but we’re not quite there yet. They will also be more open to injections rather than always relying on oral supplements. Talk to your dr and see what support you get.

Is there a known reason you might be low? Eg PPI’s metformin, vegan diet, low stomach acid, malabsorption, gut issues? Is that cause modifiable or are supplements the way forward.

B12 tablets come in various forms if you have to buy them yourself. From cheap and cheerful cyanacobalamin that needs several steps to take place in the body before it is active and usable, adenocobalamin, methycobalamin which should be taken together and are more bioavailable and work together to form the full spectrum required and finally hydroxycobalamin, the most easily usable form but hardest to source orally in the uk.

covid is known to tank levels of many vitamins and minerals including b12, vitamin D and iron stores (ferritin). Aiming to have levels at least midway to upper end of the ranges should be the optimal for health goal for these, not just scraping over the minimum lab ranges.
 
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