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fructose and low carb (ketone) diet

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by number_3, May 13, 2017.

  1. number_3

    number_3 Type 1 · Newbie

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    I'm interested in the very low carb diet - I've been following it on here and it all seems to make sense. However, I eat a lot of fruit, and am interested to know how much I should curtail this because of the fructose in it?
     
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  2. RosieLKH

    RosieLKH Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Check out the carbs in the fruit you eat on the My Fitness Pal website. I would imagine it would not fit into a very low carb diet, but it depends how many grams of carbs you plan to have daily. I've had to leave them out, though I sometimes have berries in small amounts.
     
  3. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    fructose is mainly processed in the liver, so it is best to be avoided... as the liver is in type 2 one ot the major problems as it also does seem to convert proteins into glucose in a higher rate than in non diabetics..

    the worst spiking fruits are mango, banana, pineapple, watermelon but all fruits seem to spike very high and rapidly which is to be avoided as much as possible..

    berrries have less fruit sugar and much more fibres and if you eat those in smaller amounts with cream it is a much better choice.

    in this link you can check out how high in the glychemic index the food you will eat is.. try to mostly eat foods under 30 in the glychemic index

    http://www.montignac.com/en/search-for-a-specific-glycemic-index/
     
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    #3 Freema, May 13, 2017 at 1:44 PM
    Last edited: May 18, 2017
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Wel if you are trying to go full keto you should be aiming for less than 20g of carbs per day ( that's the usual recommendation anyway) if you include fruit in that macro you won't be eating very much..
     
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  5. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    I'm a great fruit lover, and regularly eat small amounts of berries and other low carb fruit and manage this on below 50g carbs a day - aiming for around 30-40g.

    I do this as I need to be able to sustain an acceptable long term lifestyle (over 3 years to date). However when I first started very low carbing I didn't eat any fruit at all for a while until I was regularly in (low level) nutritional ketosis.

    I aim to eat my fruits with my meal (usually main one in evening) and with some fat (e.g. cream or yoghurt), and don't see any real glucose spikes at all - see recent log, yellow dots indicate start of meals.

    But you need to check how any fruit might affect you!

    Libre-data.png

    Robbity

    PS My original keto diet efforts were eating 20-25g carbs a day for 2-3 weeks, based on original Atkins induction phase.
     
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  6. Ellie3919

    Ellie3919 Prediabetes · Member

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    Hello,
    Your carbohydrate should really come from leafy greens in a ketogenic diet. Fruit should be very much an occasional treat, not a daily occurrence. It is "nature's candy". Another website you could check out, with videos from Dr Jason Fung, is Dietdoctor.com. When you do have fruit it should be berries or cold country fruit rather than tropical. Welcome to the "dark side." Unenlightened dietitians get very nervous about the K word
     
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  7. Julia99

    Julia99 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I eat two small tangerines at work mid morning and they make very little difference to my blood sugar levels
     
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  8. lbd

    lbd Family member · Member

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  9. uart

    uart Type 1.5 · Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people have quite an issue with the very idea of fruit being a "bag guy", given that it's usually (in the non LC context) considered very healthy.

    Fresh fruit is still way healthier than lot of other snack food, and a lot healthier than fruit juices, but unfortunately it does have a bit too much sugars for many of us to eat in too larger quantities.

    I also love fruit, and I do eat some daily, but if I eat too much then it does spike my blood glucose. I find that berries (or berries and cream) are usually fine, and something like an apple or pear after a meal (NOT on an empty stomach) is also ok.
     
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  10. Kirbster

    Kirbster Type 1 · Active Member

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    I follow the ketogenic diet and unfortunately have had to give up all fruit except for the occasional raspberry, blackberry or strawberry treat. But I'm really not missing it at all, nor am I missing all the carbs I used to eat, the recipes I'm cooking are absolutely delicious. I can't recommend the keto diet enough, however please ensure you do a lot of research first and totally understand how the diet works and how it affects those with diabetes.

    A couple of very good books I can recommend are:
    Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution: A Complete Guide to Achieving Normal Blood Sugars (by Dr Richard Bernstein)
    The Ketogenic Diet for Type 1 Diabetes (by Ellen Davis and Keith Runyan)
     
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  11. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    It is important to appreciate that fructose does not exert glycaemic raising effects like glucose does - so from a blood sugar point of view Fructose is not really an issue. Fructose does have potential to cause deleterious metabolic effects due to the way it is metabolised however this is only an issue when consumed at supra-physiological levels. Fructose simply is not an issue in the way claimed although in Diabetics, there 'may' be a threshold (whichis lower than in non-diabetics) beyond which Fructose seems to have a hypertriacylglyceridaemic influence above that of iso-caloric glucose equivalents. This threshold is about 60g - this far exceeds the amount of Fructose that could be consumed in a LCKD. So, in a very low carb diet Fructose wont be a concern because the amount of CHO consumed will naturally dictate a minimal amount of it in the diet

    Definitions can be tricky, but my understanding is that a very low CHO diet, to promote ketosis, is between 10g-50g CHO/d - due to differences in weight, caloric needs an aim is for CHO to be <10% of energy. So, because on average an 80g portion of fruit contains around 8-10g CHO (range is 8g-14g per 100g) vegetables may be a better option to get in fibre, vitamins and minerals (as well as antioxidants, polyphenols etc). Broadly speaking, fructose in fruit is typically a quarter to half the sugar content.

    Knowing this, and having worked out how much carbohydrate per day you are aiming for hopefully means you can now better decide how much fruit you want to consume whilst remaining within your self imposed limits.
     
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    #11 Sean_Raymond, May 20, 2017 at 12:52 PM
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Like a lot of HCP's you write in a very black and white way.
    Anecdotally on this forum people have varying glucose responses to fruit so to say that it is not really an issue is just plain wrong. Someone recently ate an apple that raised their BG level by 3 mmol which to me sounds like an issue. Still what do I know I just have Type 2 and a fairly extensive record of my dietary intake and resulting BG levels.
     
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  13. serenity648

    serenity648 · Guest

    I dont eat any fruit except tomatoes, but i do eat a lot of green veg and salad.
     
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  14. Art Of Flowers

    Art Of Flowers I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  15. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your reply, although I think you should re-read what I wrote. I never said fruit was not an issue - I said fructose wasn't (within the context of a very low CHO diet). Indeed, I actually said that the OP would be better off getting in vegetables rather than fruit to meet his/her aims of a very low CHO diet. There was nothing black and white about what I wrote. I am well aware of the potential glucose raising effects of fruit as well as how individual the fasting and post prandial glucose levels of a person can be. I am sure you can appreciate that I can only write in general terms - individual advice would require far more detail beyond the scope of a forum

    I am on your side and here only to help.
     
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  16. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Tell that to all the Americans with their HFCS consumption..
    But I digress.. as the OP was asking about a ketogenic diet then fruit isn't a great idea apart maybe from a few berries as a treat. I completely agree that above ground vegetables are a far better source for the few carbs that they would be ingesting than fruit.
     
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  17. wiseowl_123

    wiseowl_123 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Good afternoon I had just one orange yesterday and my BG shot through the roof:)
     
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  18. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    Ok. Again, as previously stated and restated- I am aware fruit can raise blood sugars. But it wasn't the fructose that did that though.
     
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    #18 Sean_Raymond, May 20, 2017 at 4:56 PM
    Last edited: May 20, 2017
  19. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    I am glad that after having re-read what I said you are in complete accordance with what I wrote to the OP regarding fruit and VLCKD.

    To your remark regarding Americans and HFCS - not sure what point is trying to be made. As far as I know, most Americans are not on very low carbohydrate diets which is the diet I was addressing in relation to fructose not being an issue. Please do not extrapolate or confuse what I have said to other diets - I have been very focussed in what I wrote to the OP regarding his/her VLCKD.
     
  20. Sean_Raymond

    Sean_Raymond HCP · Well-Known Member

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    But - regarding fructose and the American diet. I assume you are eluding to fructose and its alleged role in NAFLD, obesity and Diabetes? If so - may I ask you to inform me of the level of fructose Americans consume as well as point me towards the evidence that unequivocally demonstrates that this level of consumption is an issue. I have seen videos online putting forward an argument that fructose is behind obesity, fatty liver and diabetes - but at current consumption levels the best evidence, including isotope interventions ( which shows the fate of fructose when consumed), strongly indicates that this is not the case.
     
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