Goodbye

The fear of fat that was pushed originally by Ancel Keys and later by the Big Food conglomerates is, in my opinion, responsible for today's epidemic of T2 Diabetes. I can't tell you how disgusted I am with the ego driven, greedy people whose short term gain has seen millions of people live a shorter and oftentimes miserable life.
For fifty years we were indoctrinated by this guff that eating mass produced cack was the healthy option.
It matters little to me how long an academic has trained if he or she then finds it a warm snug place to be to sit in the pocket of Big Food or Big Pharma.
Research has shown that in Britain at least, we were healthier and proved to be longer lived during the war. That is obviously taking away the deaths caused by war/Blitz etc. This was because the diet was very low in sugar, more veg was grown at home and the use of cheaper cuts of meat and offal were used by the majority.
But mostly because we had no fear of fat.
Fast forward, we see a generation of people who will outlive their children because we have been brainwashed by HCPs, those charged with keeping us hail and hearty. Instead, they promote the myth that real food, cooked from scratch, using ingredients that do not need to be deciphered by a chemical engineer is somehow the fringe option and therefor dangerous. It is the modern western diet, rich in carbohydrates and engineered sludge that is ultimately the root cause of the problem faced by us all today and I feel sorry for people who just can't bring themselves to overcome their fear and take the plunge.

hankjam said:

This was interesting to me.
https://www.sott.net/article/242516-Heart-surgeon-speaks-out-on-what-really-causes-heart-disease

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My goodness. It is amazing how conflicting the messages are.

I can relate to what that heart surgeon is saying (above link) because the dietary advice he is criticizing is the one I followed to the letter for 30 years. I was following (and still do follow) a low-fat option but clearly I had compensated by eating a lot of carbs. I was not part of the "epidemic of obesity" that he describes but did put on some weight and did develop T2D. Unless that was entirely a random/hereditary causation or caused entirely by a sedentary lifestyle, it follows that the standard low-fat advice has a lot to answer for.

Maybe.

I am still trying to get my head around all this.

I heard a rumour that there may be a butter shortage on the horizon due to the higher demand these days though I can't remember where I read that. I am more scared of running out of butter than I am of running out of tea (and as people can tell from my 'name', I drink a lot of tea!).

Guzzler said:

I heard a rumour that there may be a butter shortage on the horizon due to the higher demand these days though I can't remember where I read that. I am more scared of running out of butter than I am of running out of tea (and as people can tell from my 'name', I drink a lot of tea!).

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Do you remember the EU butter mountain? Wonder if it's still there / they are doing this kind of thing.

Tannith said:

The story of the old lady in Wales worries me.

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The story of the old lady in Wales worried me too but for different reasons.
Apart from the appalling quality of the reporting and relying on hearsay. I wonder if the old lady was newly diagnosed and given that charming potion called metformin.
Suddenly everything makes sense.. stomach cramps, sickness and possibly dehydration.
Were I in Sherlock Holmes mode that would be my immediate area of investigation.
Also in going back to reading the article linked to in the original post I find that quite a few edits have been made to what was originally written without this being noted in the text. Were I a conspiracy theorist...

woodywhippet61 said:

Do you remember the EU butter mountain? Wonder if it's still there / they are doing this kind of thing.

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I think I have eaten it already....

Guzzler said:

I heard a rumour that there may be a butter shortage on the horizon

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every time I see it on offer I get some more for the freezer... prices have gone up a lot recently.

woodywhippet61 said:

Do you remember the EU butter mountain? Wonder if it's still there / they are doing this kind of thing.

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Yes, I remember. They couldn't even give it away in the end, it had to be dumped/destroyed.

Grateful said:

My goodness. It is amazing how conflicting the messages are.

I can relate to what that heart surgeon is saying (above link) because the dietary advice he is criticizing is the one I followed to the letter for 30 years. I was following (and still do follow) a low-fat option but clearly I had compensated by eating a lot of carbs. I was not part of the "epidemic of obesity" that he describes but did put on some weight and did develop T2D. Unless that was entirely a random/hereditary causation or caused entirely by a sedentary lifestyle, it follows that the standard low-fat advice has a lot to answer for.

Maybe.

I am still trying to get my head around all this.

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There is a sense of throwing out the baby with the bathwater which is off putting. I never liked low fat anyway, I don't like animal fats - in fact just seeing lots of fat on meat makes me feel sick - I am trying to eat more cheese and nuts (that's easy). I love the taste of butter so that's easy.

bulkbiker said:

I think I have eaten it already....


every time I see it on offer I get some more for the freezer... prices have gone up a lot recently.

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The look on the face of the carer who does my shopping sometimes was priceless when she read '6 blocks kerrygold butter' on my list. The look on my face brooked no argument.

Guzzler said:

I heard a rumour that there may be a butter shortage on the horizon due to the higher demand these days though I can't remember where I read that. I am more scared of running out of butter than I am of running out of tea (and as people can tell from my 'name', I drink a lot of tea!).

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There is a major butter shortage in France (of all places!). The reasons are multiple. Article here (in French): http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2017/1...-plus-de-beurre-dans-votre-grande-surface.php. Among the problems: disputes between producers and the supermarket chains, a big increase in price (this actually ought to increase supply but is not trickling down to the producers), and high demand from China.

I suppose we could buy loads of it and put it in the freezer, thus helping to exacerbate the shortage....

Grateful said:

There is a major butter shortage in France (of all places!). The reasons are multiple. Article here (in French): http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2017/1...-plus-de-beurre-dans-votre-grande-surface.php. Among the problems: disputes between producers and the supermarket chains, a big increase in price, and high demand from China.

I suppose we could buy loads of it and put it in the freezer, thus helping to exacerbate the shortage....

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I don't read French but I love butter from Brittany. It is my birthday today and later the family are taking me out for lunch but I think I will ask for a detour to the supermarket....
Butter for my birthday? That will be a first

woodywhippet61 said:

I am trying to eat more cheese and nuts (that's easy).

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I have been eating a lot of both. I always ate a lot of cheese, so that is not a change. I hardly used to eat nuts at all. Then when I went on the low-carb diet, nuts (specifically macadamia and pecans) became my go-to snack to ward off hunger. They are a great appetite-cutter and have fat and protein.

Now however I have cut out the nuts altogether, after suffering two kidney stones in six months (my first ever). Take my word for it, you don't ever to have a kidney stone. Unfortunately my research seems to indicate that nuts are among the causative factors for kidney stones. Trouble is, the stones can take months to form, so I won't know whether this dietary adjustment is "working" until many months from now.

This is a great thread, ironically themed around the departure of a valued member.

Does anyone know why unsalted butter is 10 p per pack dearer than salted ?
CAROL

carty said:

Does anyone know why unsalted butter is 10 p per pack dearer than salted ?
CAROL

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Because 'they' have also learned that we in general have a fear of salt. Rotten advice yet again.

Tannith said:

The story of the old lady in Wales worries me. I have seen no evidence at all that it is safe to eat a diet that contains 60% fat, as does the low carb high fat diet. Neither have I seen any evidence that it is safe to eat large quantities of any one of the individual types of fat. On the contrary, there are countless warnings against eating anything but minimal amounts of saturated fats. T2s have 2 to 4 times the risk of cardiovascular disease compared to ordinary people, and 80% of T2s die of cardiovascular disease. Yes, carbs are likely to raise our blood sugars but there are other ways of keeping BGs down. Vlc diets are not suitable for everyone either, at least without medical supervision. Low blood sugar can make you faint and this could be dangerous for drivers and old/sick people who might fall on, say, stairs. A few people on here offer medical advice to others without having the faintest idea of their circumstances, or what their co-morbidities might be.They also constantly put down the opinions of GPs who have trained for 6 plus years, dieticians who have trained for four, and all the eminent scientists from the WHO, the FAO and a number of governments, who have been employed to devise the diets the HCPs recommend, and suggest ignoring their advice to patients whose medical notes they are familiar with. I am alarmed to see posters self importantly playing "doctors and nurses". with other people's lives. Sooner or later it will cause a death. Perhaps it already has. I feel embarrassed to be associated with a forum that allows people to do this. Having said that there are some great people on here and I have enjoyed reading about your experiences. Thank you.

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I absolutely agree with all you have said and good on you for saying it. There is no evidence to say saturated fat is good for us and that certainly should not be recommended to those that we know absolutely nothing about as it could be dangerous for their health yet still the advice here is... not to be afraid of fat and you must go low carb.. there are so many that this may not suit at all I also do not like the way the medical profession is constantly put down as not knowing what they are talking about and that members here think they are experts...and say so.. with no medical training they still think they know better and that could be fatal for someone.Yes a lot have been helped on here but still members should be very careful about what they tell others to do or not do just because it suits them. It is not the recommended medical advice..medical advice is still low fat... and this should be clearly stated to everyone who joins here because I am sure that many newbies who have not yet seen a nurse think that it is As someone once said on the group ...We are only experts on our self...and we should certainly remember that

Pinkorchid said:

I absolutely agree with all you have said and good on you for saying it. There is no evidence to say saturated fat is good for us and that certainly should not be recommended to those that we know absolutely nothing about as it could be dangerous for their health yet still the advice here is... not to be afraid of fat and you must go low carb.. there are so many that this may not suit at all I also do not like the way the medical profession is constantly put down as not knowing what they are talking about and that members here think they are experts...and say so.. with no medical training think they know better and that could be fatal for someone.Yes a lot have been helped on here but still members should be very careful about what they tell others to do or not do just because it suits them. It is not the recommended medical advice..medical advice is still low fat... and this should be clearly stated to everyone who joins here because I am sure that many newbies who have not yet seen a nurse think that it is As someone once said on the group ...We are only experts on our self...and we should certainly remember that

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The problem as I see it is that we now have a situation where various elements of the medical profession are not in total agreement over the carbohydrate/fat issue. Some medical professionals are indeed endorsing LCHF whilst others are reluctant to change long held beliefs about the harm that fats do to us. This view seldom differentiates for different types of fat.

When I reply to people on this forum I try emphasise that what's important is that people have anough information to be able to make an informed decision about what's right for them. Change your diet or don't change your diet, it's your choice as long as you understand what you're doing and it works for YOU.

But saying to people do what's right for you is in a way counterintuitive to standard medical advice where the Eat Well Plate is pushed out to virtually everybody, irrespective of their medical condition and the disease they present with. My own experience on diagnosis was that my dietician was only interested in getting me to stop drinking full fat milk and didn't explain anything to me about the carb/blood glucose relationship. I picked this up myself after searching on-line.

And whilst it's all very well respecting the experience of longstanding medical practitioners it's of little use if that practitioner has not kept up with modern thinking and the latest research. The Endocrinologist that I see yearly, would be amongst the first to admit that the medical profession knows little about diabetes which is mainly due to the lack of research - in comparison to say the amount of money being spent on cancer research. The sheer number of people now being affected by diabetes is giving greater emphasis to diabetes research and thankfully, more is now being done.

Curiously, the trend towards lower carb lifestyles is spreading outside of the diabetes community with recognition that avoiding blood glucose spikes may have a long term benefit on health......

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...ding-bakers-toast-bread-sales-fall-costs-rise

....of course, this isn't the same as saying eat loads of fat but it perhaps signals a change in direction amongst the public. I know non-diabetics who've adopted LCHF lifestyles with no apparent detriment to their health. But once again, this is a personal choice they've made after reading up on the subject. At the moment, LCHF isn't for me, although I have moderated my carb intake to help improve my control and reduce my insulin requirements.

We are not anti-carb or pro-carb although some correspondents obviously have their own preferences and push them (shall we say) passionately on others. I hope that @Tannith (and anyone else considering leaving the forum) will stick around to help present a balanced view going forward.

@Tannith

You have expressed concerns about members giving medical advice. As every forum member should know, this is against the forum rules. When it is reported, it is dealt with by moderators.

So why have you not reported the posts in question?

Vague unsubstantiated claims are not helpful to anyone - forum readers, forum posters or moderators. In fact, they end up creating an 'us against them' atmosphere. Oddly enough, that is against the forum rules too.

Everyone using this forum does so on the understanding that they will abide by the forum rules.

So please, the next time anyone sees a post that they think gives medical advice, then do the right thing - hit the Report button - rather than waiting for days or weeks and then making critical statements without specific examples.

Every single one of us bears responsibility for keeping this forum a supportive environment.

Brunneria said:

@Tannith

You have expressed concerns about members giving medical advice. As every forum member should know, this is against the forum rules. When it is reported, it is dealt with by moderators.

So why have you not reported the posts in question?

Vague unsubstantiated claims are not helpful to anyone - forum readers, forum posters or moderators. In fact, they end up creating an 'us against them' atmosphere. Oddly enough, that is against the forum rules too.

Everyone using this forum does so on the understanding that they will abide by the forum rules.

So please, the next time anyone sees a post that they think gives medical advice, then do the right thing - hit the Report button - rather than waiting for days or weeks and then making critical statements without specific examples.

Every single one of us bears responsibility for keeping this forum a supportive environment.

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It can come pretty near to medical advice with statins here when they try to put people off taking them with their horror stories. That is not helpful it's just scaremongering when it could be vital that some people should take them but they are put off by what is said here that is very wrong.

Pinkorchid said:

It can come pretty near to medical advice with statins here when they try to put people off taking them with their horror stories. That is not helpful it's just scaremongering when it could be vital that some people should take them but they are put off by what is said here that is very wrong.

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If you feel that a post breaks the forum rules, then please report it.

If you disagree with someone's opinion in a post which does not break the forum rules then you are welcome to say so by posting on the thread. Discussion, debate and a range of ideas are central to this forum - especially when posters speak from personal experience and give links and references to explain why they feel the way they do.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and is welcome to express that opinion, so long as they stay within the forum rules and remain civil.