Gullibility

Beachbag said:

Gosh! Many thanks to everyone who commented so openly.
Now it's my turn to be open and honest.
I started this thread with an ulterior motive, but it appears the reason for it has been dealt with by someone else ( thank you!)
Having lived with a man who went through hell before he finally died of primary prostate and laryngeal cancer, I was becoming increasingly outraged by a certain thread ( you all know which one!) not only for its content which IMO was complete ****...eg morphine dose increased by 14 times original dose etc. but by the fact that it continued unchallenged and was allowed to continue for so long. Having started the thread, I took today.....fortunately out in sunshine....trying to decide what action to take. I didn't want to be banned, couldn't post on "that" thread using another name etc. What you see with me is very much what you get, unless it's a pic of my dog, and I don't like confrontation!
Imagine my relief to see it's sorted and even moreso to read all your comments posted in good faith.
Now....do I hit "post reply"

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A truly remarkable post one of the bravest I have seen on this forum.

Take care

Steve

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I see it still continues this morning where essentially those people who have made a stand on this thread are being labelled as trolls by others.

Its not right to allow that imho.

This is not the first time this kind of thing has happened here and I doubt it will be the last but can we at least have a bit of peace and quiet and get back to discussing and sometimes arguing about diabetes not morphine doses that would kill an elephant.

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Oh well looks like I was taken in by it. If it wasn't genuine then how awful.
My middle name is definitely gullible.
Not really sure how I feel about this now.


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Am so glad that this thread was started. I must admit when I saw it was titled gullibility, I did wonder if it was a response to the other thread I'd been reading with increasing concern.
I've spent quite a lot of time chastising myself for being a bad minded, cynical nasty piece of work, because I couldn't bring myself to believe what I read. Seeing others doubt has restored a little of my faith in my own judgment.
I'd really like to think that the altruistic motives expressed by the originator of the other thread were genuine but, I'm afraid I'm having trouble believing it. I think I'd prefer it to be a case of shame on me, but I'm pretty sure it's a case of shame on him.

Mrs Vimes said:

Oh well looks like I was taken in by it. If it wasn't genuine then how awful.
My middle name is definitely gullible.
Not really sure how I feel about this now.


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i feel exactly the same as you, i had heard doubts and did indeed wonder why someone would spend hours of pain typing in a forum if time was so short, but then i also could believe that if you were indeed trying to save others from your fate that would explain it, I'm really struggling with the idea that someone is capable of making all this up and what they would gain from it, i know nothing of morphine etc so if this is untrue then what else is untrue? who is right? what can we ever believe again? its blown me away to be honest. and does any of it matter?, maybe best to not take any of it personal and just treat it as a place for advice and support, whilst trying to ignore this insanity

Mrs Vimes said:

Oh well looks like I was taken in by it. If it wasn't genuine then how awful.
My middle name is definitely gullible.
Not really sure how I feel about this now.


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Don't feel bad. It's very difficult to judge. A good idea (as someone else posted) is to look at the thread and see if many of the more experienced posters are contributing. If they aren't or they seem to all stop posting then maybe begin to become suspicious. Even if you do want to contribute then just remember some basic safety rules such as not handing out personal information such as personal emails and addresses etc via the PM system to anyone you are not 100% sure is real however plausible they sound. You wouldn't hand over the keys to you house to a stranger so be careful what you hand over to people on forums and the internet in general as the result can end up the same and worse.

vanessa Johnson said:

I've spent quite a lot of time chastising myself for being a bad minded, cynical nasty piece of work, became I couldn't bring myself to believe what I read.

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Unfortunately for many of us this isn't the first time this has happened and I doubt it will be the last. It's happened at least twice since I've been posting and more times before that from what more experienced posters told me soon after I joined. It is one of the hazards of the internet I'm afraid. Like I said in a post yesterday at least our children and teenagers nowadays are better at spotting it than us.

Andy12345 said:

i feel exactly the same as you, i had heard doubts and did indeed wonder why someone would spend hours of pain typing in a forum if time was so short, but then i also could believe that if you were indeed trying to save others from your fate that would explain it, I'm really struggling with the idea that someone is capable of making all this up and what they would gain from it, i know nothing of morphine etc so if this is untrue then what else is untrue? who is right? what can we ever believe again? its blown me away to be honest. and does any of it matter?, maybe best to not take any of it personal and just treat it as a place for advice and support, whilst trying to ignore this insanity

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I too feel the same.


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xyzzy said:

Like I said in a post yesterday at least our children and teenagers nowadays are better at spotting it than us.

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Trouble is, I don't think they really are - that's how so many young people get 'groomed' on forums and chat rooms. The trouble is with forums like this one, there are many genuinely vulnerable people on them and the PM system is a groomer's paradise. You should definitely be suspicious of any thread that is being conducted ostensibly in public, but with a heavy undertone of lots of PM activity. The references to PM'd messages are clearly to make individuals feel that they are personally-involved and have a 'relationship' with the person involved.

We all occasionally say to someone 'I'll PM you' or 'PM me if you want to', but threads that are littered with references to PM chains with individuals are almost always suspect.

Smidge

Kevin's story may or may not have been real. I have no way of knowing the answer. What I do know is that, even if the story was untrue, that does not make its effect on me or the things I wrote in response any less real or honest.

I am not embarrassed to say that I was truly moved by his original post and wrote back to express my feelings and support.

For this reason I believe that nobody should feel bad about being "taken in". If Kevin's story is not true, then the only person that comes out of it with anything to be ashamed of is Kevin himself, not the people who responded to him out of the goodness of their heart.

Too be fair, I still do not know if the story is true or not.

For that matter, I have no way of knowing if the others who write saying that they have personal experience of losing a close relative in similar circumstances to what Kevin describes and for that reason are certain of the falsehood of Kevin's story, are not themselves making up convenient stories.

Once you start doubting people, it is difficult to know where to stop.

Please do not take this as an invitation for anyone to be offended or feel they need to offer me any proof. I am just making a general point.

In my own experience, Kevin never contacted me through PM and never tried to get anything from me other than the support I voluntarily gave of my own initiative. I do not know if the same holds true for others who have posted on the thread.

If his story was untrue, I am not sure what the motive behind it was.

I share the belief that some more information should be forthcoming from the administrators as to what happened, for the sake of clarity and, more importantly, to stop this issue from being a cause of division and ill will between the members of this forum.

Pavlos


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smidge said:

The trouble is with forums like this one, there are many genuinely vulnerable people on them and the PM system is a groomer's paradise.

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Exactly, be very wary of the "If you PM me I'll give you the recipe or whatever ..." i.e. the subject matter could be openly discussed on the thread or could be the subject of a new thread.

When I helped set up "the other place" it was for that reason we delayed introducing a PM system until we were certain that under very strict circumstances we could provide PM threads to a relevant legal authority if it became apparent grooming was going on. I'm sure DCUK have a similar policy not that we should expect them to comment on it.

smidge said:

Trouble is, I don't think they really are - that's how so many young people get 'groomed' on forums and chat rooms. The trouble is with forums like this one, there are many genuinely vulnerable people on them and the PM system is a groomer's paradise. You should definitely be suspicious of any thread that is being conducted ostensibly in public, but with a heavy undertone of lots of PM activity. The references to PM'd messages are clearly to make individuals feel that they are personally-involved and have a 'relationship' with the person involved.

We all occasionally say to someone 'I'll PM you' or 'PM me if you want to', but threads that are littered with references to PM chains with individuals are almost always suspect.

Smidge

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I couldnt agree more smidge. It takes experience to recognise that not everything one reads is necessarily true and to be cautious..
We often see posters who are obviously unused to posting anywhere - it may be heir first experience of any internet forum
Many find it difficult to believe that others would lie about their health or seeek to mislead on health issues but unfortunately no forum on any topic is immune.

There is a great responsibility on the owners and Moderators . and posters on any healh-related forum. It would be impossible to check on the veracity of those posting so maybe concerned and experienced members should be more prepaed to contact admin or moderators .with concerns.
This of course puts more of a burden on mods and admin because people may be discourraged if they do not receive a reply.
people must learn to look afyer themselves on the iternet but as you say Smidge , they are often very vullnerable and may need help in that way as well as with their physical health.

smidge said:

Trouble is, I don't think they really are - that's how so many young people get 'groomed' on forums and chat rooms. The trouble is with forums like this one, there are many genuinely vulnerable people on them and the PM system is a groomer's paradise. You should definitely be suspicious of any thread that is being conducted ostensibly in public, but with a heavy undertone of lots of PM activity. The references to PM'd messages are clearly to make individuals feel that they are personally-involved and have a 'relationship' with the person involved.

We all occasionally say to someone 'I'll PM you' or 'PM me if you want to', but threads that are littered with references to PM chains with individuals are almost always suspect.

Smidge

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smidge said:

Trouble is, I don't think they really are - that's how so many young people get 'groomed' on forums and chat rooms. The trouble is with forums like this one, there are many genuinely vulnerable people on them and the PM system is a groomer's paradise. You should definitely be suspicious of any thread that is being conducted ostensibly in public, but with a heavy undertone of lots of PM activity. The references to PM'd messages are clearly to make individuals feel that they are personally-involved and have a 'relationship' with the person involved.

We all occasionally say to someone 'I'll PM you' or 'PM me if you want to', but threads that are littered with references to PM chains with individuals are almost always suspect.

Smidge

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Talking of what makes me cynical, I am reminded of a poster back in 2004 on the ebay forums. Teetering on the brink of death back then, she lost her leg then her dog. When she was too ill to post, her carer, who shared the same quirky punctuation, would post for her. Even the pinks (moderators) were taken in and showered her with gifts, prayers and attention. There must have been some snake oil in that bottle of Glenmorangie the pinks sent her as she was still there posting on another part of the community boards years later without a care. Just checked and her account was still active in 2013. Hmmm.

xyzzy said:

Exactly, be very wary of the "If you PM me I'll give you the recipe or whatever ..." i.e. the subject matter could be openly discussed on the thread or could be the subject of a new thread.

When I helped set up "the other place" it was for that reason we delayed introducing a PM system until we were certain that under very strict circumstances we could provide PM threads to a relevant legal authority if it became apparent grooming was going on. I'm sure DCUK have a similar policy not that we should expect them to comment on it.

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Being a webmaster yourself, I'm sure you know what the score is when it comes to being able to read PMs. However, we don't read them unless someone:

a) Reports them via the report function.
b) Reports them to us via email with a screenshot.

If such a situation does arise where we need to pass the content along to relevant authorities it is then, AND ONLY THEN, that we run the SQL queries to grab that info from the server. We fully respect your privacy here at DCUK and believe that your private messages should stay exactly that. Private.

Thankfully this occurrence is incredibly rare and I've only had to download someone's inbox once (on a different forum than this one) as we can usually deduce enough simply from the inbuilt report system to justify banning a user or not.

Hopefully that clarifies our process a little.

xyzzy said:

Exactly, be very wary of the "If you PM me I'll give you the recipe or whatever ..." i.e. the subject matter could be openly discussed on the thread or could be the subject of a new thread.

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I always thought that to be strange too although for a while when I received PM's out of the blue I didn't read too much into it-now I shudder and I'm just relieved I've never given out any personal details to anyone via PM.

im a little puzzled by why giving someone your email address via P.m would cause any concern? what could anyone do to you? are we talking about cloning credit cards etc? or just sending nasty messages?

Andy12345 said:

im a little puzzled by why giving someone your email address via P.m would cause any concern? what could anyone do to you? are we talking about cloning credit cards etc? or just sending nasty messages?

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It isn't the act of revealing your email which is dangerous it's the conversations that then commence ie the actual grooming. In a case I know the groomer befriended the victim, got who that persons employer was and then threatened to reveal damaging medical information to the victims employer causing the victim to end up with a breakdown. Presumably it's the act of having power over someone that the perp gets off on. In the case I mention both the groomer and the victim were female so gender isn't relevant.

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xyzzy said:

It isn't the act of revealing your email which is dangerous it's the conversations that then commence ie the actual grooming. In a case I know the groomer befriended the victim, got who that persons employer was and then threatened to reveal damaging medical information to the victims employer causing the victim to end up with a breakdown. Presumably it's the act of having power over someone that the perp gets off on. In the case I mention both the groomer and the victim were female so gender isn't relevant.

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thankyou.....*scratching head*..... can i apply to be groomed? lol