Headaches, like a constant hangover

I assume that you didn't have this headache before you started on the tablets?

As you have only been on the tablets for a week, it seems logical to stop them for a couple of weeks to see if the symptoms go away. Also discuss this with your health care team. It could be due to the high blood pressure, it could be due to the hot and muggy weather we are having at the moment.

Was your high blood pressure diagnosed alongside the diabetes?

@daisy1 for the welcome pack.

Quickie questions:

How tall are you, what do you weigh, and what do you normally eat in a day?

What were your test results when you were diagnosed?

Bearing in mind that I am not a health professional, I am a bit doubtful about statins. From your account it seems as though you were prescribed a statin because "that is what you do if you have diabetes". Were you diagnosed with too much of the wrong kind of cholesterol?

As @LittleGreyCat says we’re not Drs so I would advise going back to your GP sooner if possible to discuss this. My opinion is it could be any or all of Metformin, the statin or your high BP.

Why would you be on tablets for the rest of your life?

Danny61 said:

Hi

Thanks for replying. No I didnt have these headaches before. I am 175.5 cm and weigh 86kg. My blood pressure was diagnosed alongside my diabetes, as a result of a health assessment at work. Im still trying to get my head around what all these numbers mean, but my HbA1c (Is that right?) was 88. My HDL cholesterol was 0.96 and total/HDL cholesterol ratio was 6.69. I have to admit that those figures mean nothing to me. While I hate the fact that I am now on tablets for the rest of my life, I am loathe to just stop them so soon after starting them. I do appreciate I need to see my Dr again about this, but I have an appointment in about 10 days, so maybe should wait until then?

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There is absolutely no reason why you should be on these tablets for the rest of your life. Metformin is a very mild drug and won't do much to lower your blood sugars unless you also change your diet. Diet is the key. Many people on this forum have manged to come off all diabetes tablets, including insulin in some cases, achieved by a suitable and sustainable diet. This is the bottom line.

HDL is the good cholesterol and needs to be as high as possible. Statins will not help with this. They do not work on the HDL.

Please tell me your doctor did not prescribe statins based on those cholesterol figures alone? What were your other cholesterol results, or were you not tested for a full lipid panel? This is LDL and triglycerides.

Headaches can be caused by dehydration, and it has been very hot recently. Have you been drinking plenty of water?

Metformin, high BP, statin or it could be as simple case of mild dehydration. Have you been given bp meds?

Danny61 said:

I said to my GP that "Diabetes can be reversed" can't it? She replied yes, but in your case, because of the high levels and your age, that wont happen. Therefore tablets for the rest of my life, or am i getting this totally wrong? This is all massively confusing for me, as i was always healthy with no issues ever before this.

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You aren't getting it wrong. Your GP is. People with much higher levels achieve remission. I don't know how old you are, but age is no barrier to achieving remission. There are plenty of oldies on this forum - I'm one of them! It will be lovely if you can do this and prove the GP wrong ... that could be an excellent motivating thing for you.

EDIT. I have also had a peek at your age. You are a mere spring chicken! I am 70 and in remission. Many on here are even older. What on earth is your GP thinking?

Danny61 said:

I said to my GP that "Diabetes can be reversed" can't it? She replied yes, but in your case, because of the high levels and your age, that wont happen. Therefore tablets for the rest of my life, or am i getting this totally wrong? This is all massively confusing for me, as i was always healthy with no issues ever before this.

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You’re the same age as me (sorry, had a quick peep at your profile!). I was on BP meds before my diabetes diagnosis and I started Metformin on diagnosis. Since my getting my bloods sugars under control mainly by low carb diet and self monitoring, I have reduced my BP to a level where I’ve halved my BP meds and we are going to talk about reducing the Metformin at my next review. So I agree with @Bluetit1802 you don’t have to be on tablets for life.

Danny61 said:

I said to my GP that "Diabetes can be reversed" can't it? She replied yes, but in your case, because of the high levels and your age, that wont happen. Therefore tablets for the rest of my life, or am i getting this totally wrong? This is all massively confusing for me, as i was always healthy with no issues ever before this.

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There are often discussions on this topic.

If by "reversed" you mean that you can eat anything you like in any quantities then this may well not be achievable.

However if you mean "maintain normal Blood Glucose levels without medication" then this is very often achievable. I am maintaining pre-diabetic levels at the moment with just Metformin and if I went really hard core I could get down to non-diabetic levels.

Edit: just looked at your profile. A mere callow youth. Plenty of time to get it sorted. The sooner you crack on with the lifestyle changes the better.

Danny61 said:

Hi

Thanks for replying. No I didnt have these headaches before. I am 175.5 cm and weigh 86kg. My blood pressure was diagnosed alongside my diabetes, as a result of a health assessment at work. Im still trying to get my head around what all these numbers mean, but my HbA1c (Is that right?) was 88. My HDL cholesterol was 0.96 and total/HDL cholesterol ratio was 6.69. I have to admit that those figures mean nothing to me. While I hate the fact that I am now on tablets for the rest of my life, I am loathe to just stop them so soon after starting them. I do appreciate I need to see my Dr again about this, but I have an appointment in about 10 days, so maybe should wait until then?

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Just plugged your numbers into the BMI calculator and you are well into the Orange "overweight" scale.
https://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx
Down well into the green is good.
Your main target should be to try and get your waist measurement to less than half your height - that is 87 cms or less.
The good news is that if you get the weight off your waist quickly then that can reduce or reverse your symptoms.

@Danny61

Hello Danny and welcome to the Forum Here is the Basic Information we give to new members and I hope you will find it useful and interesting. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will be able to help.



BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you'll find well over 235,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.

There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes.

Over 145,000 people have taken part in the Low Carb Program - a 10 week structured education course that is helping people lose weight and reduce medication dependency by explaining the science behind carbs, insulin and GI.

Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to blood glucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic.

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.
Take part in Diabetes.co.uk digital education programs and improve your understanding. Most of these are free.

• Low Carb Program - it's made front-page news of the New Scientist and The Times. Developed with 20,000 people with type 2 diabetes; 96% of people who take part recommend it... find out why
  
  
• Hypo Program - improve your understanding of hypos. There's a version for people with diabetes, parents/guardians of children with type 1, children with type 1 diabetes, teachers and HCPs.
  

Before you go on BP medication I should buy a BP monitor and take your own blood pressure regularly, every day. It is very very common that high Blood Pressure is a short term phenomenon, directly related to anxiety, so make sure you are feeling nice and relaxed when you do it. I take mine 3 times, with 5 minute gaps in between, and record the third. For me, it’s not just ‘white coat syndrome’ - even when I’m doing it myself the very act of getting the monitor out puts my BP up. I have an excellent app on my phone called IBP, the doctor loves it, it shows trends, averages etc etc. Lloyd’s Pharmacy used to sell a BP monitor very cheaply, I don’t know if they still do. Be sure to get an upper arm one, the others are less accurate.

Almost certainly, since they started at exactly the same time, your medications are causing your headaches. The simplest thing is to stop the medication and see if the headache goes away, then you’ll know for definite before you see the doctor again. Anything that is debilitating (headaches, muscle pains etc etc) will reduce your overall health and well-being.

Whether you choose to proceed with Statins or not is a personal decision, but just be aware that the science is far from settled, personally, for me, Statins are a ‘never’ drug - I follow Malcolm Kendrick on this one. I believe that Statins are the most likely culprit for producing headaches, an awful lot of eminent doctors are joining the ‘static sceptic’ camp. A good book to explain the concerns is ‘The Great Cholesterol Con’ by Malcolm Kendrick.

My first suggestion is that you get up immediately and go get a big glass of water. Drink it. Then pour another one, and sip that over the next few minutes.

If your headache disappears, then it was mild dehydration.

My next suggestion is that you go and get the packaging from your various new prescriptions.
Then enter the drug names into this website.
https://www.webmd.com/interaction-checker/default.htm
It will throw up any known side effects to each drug, AND it will check for interactions between the drugs.

I strongly believe that none of us should be starting any medication (on or off prescription) without doing this. But very few people have even heard that such cross checking is possible. Doctors SHOULD do this whenever they prescribe, but I have never known one to do it - so I do it myself. Every time.

If any of the searches throw up headaches as a contraindication, then you can go back to your doc and ask to be taken off that drug and try a different one.

Good luck, and please keep up informed.
(also: I absolutely agree with the people up-thread who have said that diet and lifestyle is the biggest weapon we have in the arsenal against type 2 diabetes.)

Hi there. I just looked up the Mayo clinic's site on side-effects of medications. Metformin can cause headache and statins can raise blood sugar in some people.
I agree with those that suggested you check your own BP. I read an article recently where doctors were being encouraged to only diagnose high blood pressure after a patient had had a 24 hour monitoring of blood pressure performed. Of course having the equipment to do this costs a bit and I am not sure whether NHS covers any fee charged for such a monitoring.
Your GP is the one to guide you best about whether Metformin is the culprit or something else and what to do about it. Also friends of mine on Metformin feel a bit sick and tend not to eat as much, they even reckon that is how it works, you feel slightly ill, eat less and lose weight. But the drug literature tells and different story.
My diabetes education on the subject of Type 2 diabetes syas losing weight is the aim and you have a chart kindly emailed to you to indicate what your ideal weight is.
On the question of diet it is early days. Your GP has said one thing about your long term need for tablets, others on the forum have personal stories of reversing or minimising their type 2 diabetes. Time will tell with you. Look at diets recommended for type 2, discuss them with your diabetes nurse (and dietitian if you have one), compare them with the certified Forum.website diets and see what works best for you. And best wishes.

kitedoc said:

I read an article recently where doctors were being encouraged to only diagnose high blood pressure after a patient had had a 24 hour monitoring of blood pressure performed. Of course having the equipment to do this costs a bit and I am not sure whether NHS covers any fee charged for such a monitoring.

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My GP surgery has some (not many) 24 hour BP monitors, fitted in the surgery by a nursing assistant, then returned the next day and the data fed into the machine while you waited. I was a bit late returning mine and got an anxious phone call from the nurse because she had another patient waiting for it, so I assumed they were in short supply.

I was diagnosed with high blood pressure in the days before 24 hour monitoring was common. The method used for me was to lie down in a quiet room at the medical centre and have a nurse test my BP 3 times over a 30 minute period. If you have trouble getting 24 hour monitor, they could always do it this way. It's important to get our BP down below 130/80 as quickly as possible, even if that means medication. The first line treatment, ACE inhibitors, are very low on side effects or risks.

Danny61 said:

Thanks everyone for all your replies and advice. I appreciate what some of you were saying about dehydration, but its not. I live in the North East and it never gets that warm up here!! I have made an appointment with my GP for Thursday (31st May) and I now feel more confident about asking her some more questions. Headaches are still here, and I have started a lifestyle change and have cut out many obvious sugars (Cakes, Biscuits etc) and am now looking at weight loss programes. I have also slashed my alcohol intake drastically. I am loathe to use the word diet!! Its baby steps, I know, but to do everything all at once would probably be counter productive. Thanks again everyone. Your help and assistance is much appreciated . Danny

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Hi again Danny. You're right that trying to do everything at once would be counterproductive. My attitude to diabetes management has changed a lot in the 9 years since my diagnosis. "Easy does it" is now my motto.

Can I ask you a few questions, which you don't have to answer unless you want to. Sleep disorders are common with diabetes, high blood pressure and a few other risk factors you may have. But many GPs don't think about them, esp. at the start.

Your morning headaches could be a sign of a treatable sleep disorder. Do you:
-Feel unrefreshed from your sleep upon waking?
-Feel sleepy at all during the day?
-Need to use the loo during the night? (If so, on average how many times)
-Snore loudly?
-Toss and turn a lot?
-Prefer to sleep on your stomach or side instead of your back?

Also, while a diabetic can drink alcohol without ill effects, for the next couple of weeks it might be a good idea to really limit it to say one drink with dinner only or, ideally, cut it out for a short time. This would make it much easier to get everything correctly diagnosed and treatment started well.

The combination of diabetes, high BP, morning headaches and moderate alcohol consumption increases the chance of a sleep disorder. If you can optimise your sleep quality, it makes it much easier to treat diabetes and to feel a whole lot better too.