Heart surgeon admits he was wrong

[Anonymous]

Another twitter find from the coconut oil site..

http://coconutoil.com/heart-surgeon-admits-he-was-wrong-about-low-fat-diet-and-heart-disease/

 

[catza]

Very interesting link Swimmer. Thank you.

 

[sallylondon]

The article was great Swimmer. I actually understood his logic too :clap: At the bottom is the link to the full article along with the comments on it. The comments are fascinating too!

 

[Fraddycat]

Facinating stuff! Thanks for sharing! I may even have managed to persuade my hubby to give up the 3 sugars he has in his coffee - he's a skinny wretch but has just had terrible gum inflammation which took 2 weeks and 2 lots of anti biotics to get rid of. He found it very sobering ..

 

[phoenix]

Dwight Lundell:
http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/lundell.html
His answer: to his critics
http://greatcholesterollie.com/letter.pdf
I'm not suggesting a discussion, merely that people make up their own minds

 

[sallylondon]

Now, you see that is why I am so confused about everything. :crazy: :roll: :cry: This two sides to every story gets me in a total muddle!

 

[Anonymous]

It is difficult - if you google "Gary Taubes" and "Quack" you get lots of hits too, but I think the guy makes sense.. I guess we believe what we want to hear.

 

[l0vaduck]

What was very telling to me, was his reply to the accusations in the links provided by Phoenix. He said that he has devoted his life to informing people how to avoid heart disease (my paraphrase) but did not actually say how. I'm afraid that just reminds me of all the adverts you see daily saying that they have found the way to lose weight without dieting, or 10 secrets of good sex, or whatever it is they're selling!

 

[librarising]

I0vaduck wrote
What was very telling to me, was his reply to the accusations in the links provided by Phoenix. He said that he has devoted his life to informing people how to avoid heart disease (my paraphrase) but did not actually say how.

He seems to be replying to queries from people who've read his book. Why would he tell them again ?

The Quackwatch article (somewhat along the lines of "since Wayne Rooney has dubious sleeping partners, and gets red cards, he's a rubbish footballer") claims "he has been promoting books that clash with scientific knowledge of heart disease prevention and treatment."

Anyone who investigates can discover that this so-called scientific knowledge is neither scientific nor knowledge. It's received 'wisdom.'
Because thousands, nay millions believe it does not make it true, or the earth would be flat, and the sun would revolve around the earth.

You don't need to pay him any money. Here's Lundell's advice

There is but one answer to quieting inflammation, and that is returning to foods closer to their natural state. To build muscle, eat more protein. Choose carbohydrates that are very complex such as colorful fruits and vegetables. Cut down on or eliminate inflammation- causing omega-6 fats like corn and soybean oil and the processed foods that are made from them.

One tablespoon of corn oil contains 7,280 mg of omega-6; soybean contains 6,940 mg. Instead, use olive oil or butter from grass-fed beef.

Animal fats contain less than 20% omega-6 and are much less likely to cause inflammation than the supposedly healthy oils labelled polyunsaturated. Forget the "science" that has been drummed into your head for decades. The science that saturated fat alone causes heart disease is non-existent. The science that saturated fat raises blood cholesterol is also very weak. Since we now know that cholesterol is not the cause of heart disease, the concern about saturated fat is even more absurd today.

The cholesterol theory led to the no-fat, low-fat recommendations that in turn created the very foods now causing an epidemic of inflammation. Mainstream medicine made a terrible mistake when it advised people to avoid saturated fat in favor of foods high in omega-6 fats. We now have an epidemic of arterial inflammation leading to heart disease and other silent killers.

That's my rant out of the way.

Geoff

I don't know the writer of the Quackwatch article but I wouldn't trust HIM. Not till he'd told me how many heart operations HE'd done.

The deeper you dig, the more the science becomes unscientific, and the knowledge becomes mere hypothesis. These unscientific hypotheses have been around during an explosion of chronic health conditions. One day the penny will drop.
Until that day the likes of Gary Taubes will call for evidence. Any evidence.
I echo that call.

 

[xyzzy]

Now, you see that is why I am so confused about everything. :crazy: :roll: :cry: This two sides to every story gets me in a total muddle!

Yes there are two sides to everything. I would answer the criticism by pointing out the whole argument has been put through the court system not in America or the UK but in Sweden. Back if 2006 some dieticians put Dr Annika Dahlqvist who is one of the worlds leading advocates of low carb high fat diets through the Swedish court system claiming she was recommending dangerous "quack" practices to her patients. The result was she won and now the Swedish government follows a load of her guidelines on what is recommended for diabetics and the general population in Sweden. Remember Sweden has the world's third lowest rate of diabetes behind Iceland and Luxemborg and has what most believe to be the worlds most advanced public health care system.

If that's not good enough then I would argue you should use yourself to justify what is a good approach as that's what I do. So by all the normal measures, hBA1c, pinprick blood levels, cholesterol levels, blood pressure, retinopathy tests, neuropathy tests and weight loss then low carb high fat with less omega 6 has **** well done it for me and has my gp's full support as he can see that too.

All I can offer you is my own experience and point out the countless others on this forum over the years who have or do follow similar lchf regimes. Not for one moment do I think you would suggest such a thing Sally but we can't all be lying can we? There will always be the doubters and those who want the status quo to to stick for their own career or self gain or self importance reasons. The knack is to recognise spin, smear campaigns and the like for what they are and ask why those people are doing them.

 

[RoyG]

I0vaduck wrote
What was very telling to me, was his reply to the accusations in the links provided by Phoenix. He said that he has devoted his life to informing people how to avoid heart disease (my paraphrase) but did not actually say how.

He seems to be replying to queries from people who've read his book. Why would he tell them again ?

The Quackwatch article (somewhat along the lines of "since Wayne Rooney has dubious sleeping partners, and gets red cards, he's a rubbish footballer") claims "he has been promoting books that clash with scientific knowledge of heart disease prevention and treatment."

Anyone who investigates can discover that this so-called scientific knowledge is neither scientific nor knowledge. It's received 'wisdom.'
Because thousands, nay millions believe it does not make it true, or the earth would be flat, and the sun would revolve around the earth.

You don't need to pay him any money. Here's Lundell's advice

There is but one answer to quieting inflammation, and that is returning to foods closer to their natural state. To build muscle, eat more protein. Choose carbohydrates that are very complex such as colorful fruits and vegetables. Cut down on or eliminate inflammation- causing omega-6 fats like corn and soybean oil and the processed foods that are made from them.

One tablespoon of corn oil contains 7,280 mg of omega-6; soybean contains 6,940 mg. Instead, use olive oil or butter from grass-fed beef.

Animal fats contain less than 20% omega-6 and are much less likely to cause inflammation than the supposedly healthy oils labelled polyunsaturated. Forget the "science" that has been drummed into your head for decades. The science that saturated fat alone causes heart disease is non-existent. The science that saturated fat raises blood cholesterol is also very weak. Since we now know that cholesterol is not the cause of heart disease, the concern about saturated fat is even more absurd today.

The cholesterol theory led to the no-fat, low-fat recommendations that in turn created the very foods now causing an epidemic of inflammation. Mainstream medicine made a terrible mistake when it advised people to avoid saturated fat in favor of foods high in omega-6 fats. We now have an epidemic of arterial inflammation leading to heart disease and other silent killers.

That's my rant out of the way.

Geoff

I don't know the writer of the Quackwatch article but I wouldn't trust HIM. Not till he'd told me how many heart operations HE'd done.

The deeper you dig, the more the science becomes unscientific, and the knowledge becomes mere hypothesis. These unscientific hypotheses have been around during an explosion of chronic health conditions. One day the penny will drop.
Until that day the likes of Gary Taubes will call for evidence. Any evidence.
I echo that call.

+1

 

[Paul_c]

It is difficult - if you google "Gary Taubes" and "Quack" you get lots of hits too, but I think the guy makes sense.. I guess we believe what we want to hear.

Gary Taubes is labelled a "quack" because he goes against the established dogma and some people's livelihoods and/or reputations are under threat if he's proved right... not to mention corporation profits are under threat as well... there are a lot of corporate shills out there and astroturfers.

 

[Anonymous]

Astroturfers ??

If this is, as I suspect, a derogatory term. What are suppliers of artificial grass products supposed to call themselve, I wonder ?

 

[librarising]

swimmer2 wrote
Astroturfers ??

Just read your post and remembered seeing this term in the index of a book I'm reading at the moment (Trick and Treat by Barry Groves - revelatory)
It appears it refers to the targeting of independent voices by drug companies. Of course, our concensus friends will find that hard to believe.

Geoff

 

[librarising]

swimmer2 wrote
What are suppliers of artificial grass products supposed to call themselve, I wonder ?

ethically minded and altruistic drug companies ?
That would at least be novel :lol:

Geoff

 

[Paul_c]

"Astroturfing" = fake "grassroots" support for controversial legislation that favours corporations.

There are companies out there that specialise in providing fake blog support and letter writing campaigns. They also frequent other blogs that go against their paymasters and post disinfo into the comments. Software enables them to maintain multiple persona without revealing that the posts are all coming from one person/office.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environme...23/need-to-protect-internet-from-astroturfing

The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent
The tobacco industry does it, the US Air Force clearly wants to ... astroturfing – the use of sophisticated software to drown out real people on web forums – is on the rise. How do we stop it?

I would be very surprised if it wasn't going on in this very forum... after all, there are corporate interests at stake; the food industry, big pharma...

 

[izzzi]

Very interesting comments. Thanks Swimmer

Somebody has got to be telling the truth. Dr. Barnard. Dr Oz. Liam Roberts, etc; ( their earnings is your reading )

Simple fact : Fully understand what you eat and drink. Know your Medicines. Control. Enjoy.

I enjoy good advice from this forum as it is hopefully all true.

Roy.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

Until that day the likes of Gary Taubes will call for evidence. Any evidence.
I echo that call.

I think you know as well as I do Geoff that there is a huge amount of evidence out there already that questions Taubes theories, Taubes sells books for profit he does not publish papers in peer reviewed scientific publications.

The truth is that all these so called diet gurus do the same thing, they come up with what seems like a great idea often this great idea will have been around for a long time and just rehashed, and they then back up their dubious claims by using very selective research that totally omits anything contrary to that theory then they add a pinch of bad science, it happens over and over again, often by those who have bought their qualifications off the internet or by those with no medical qualifications at all like Taubes. Never forget that diet books and weight loss suppliments are huge money spinners, just think the Hairy Bikers diet book has become a best seller knocking 50 shades of grey off the top of the best sellers list, this is big business here.

There are many sites and blogs that challenge Taubes and all the other dubious diet gurus not because they are backed by the food industry or big pharma, but because their ideas are believed to be wrong by the vast majority of the scientific and medical professions.

Here are just a couple there are many many more if you care to look.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk ... esity.html

http://www.coreconceptswellness.com/blo ... f-calories

 

[librarising]

Sid Bonkers wrote
I think you know as well as I do Geoff that there is a huge amount of evidence out there already that questions Taubes theories

Gary Taubes and others, myself included, call for evidence that does more than 'question.'

When you start a post about Gary Taubes, in a thread that relates to a heart surgeon, don't skip to one of your favourite bugbears, authors with a diet book to promote. There's no connection.
With the help of Google I can find thousands of links that agree with you Sid. The number of them doesn't make you or them right.
I can also find other links that those with an open mind will find interesting to read, and perhaps to cause them to temporarily lay aside their previous beliefs. They also 'question' but for some reason you're not interested in that.

Not sure why you posted, Sid. To **** off diet gurus ?

Off to Bicester Village, so catch up later

Geoff

 

[noblehead]

A heart surgeon with a dodgy past now selling books......whatever next :shock:

Keep your money in your pockets people