Help, got into trouble re: byetta timings

[xxxleonadxxx]

Hi all,
I recently joined this forum and have found loads of different experienmces, ma ny of which have helped me a great deal ...... the most to do with timings of when taking byetta and then eating, HOWEVER, I had a hospital appointment on Friday and got into bother lol ............. I felt like a kid at school ......... b4 coming to this forum I was doing the standard waiting 30 mins plus after taking my jag to eat, by which time I felt soooo sick I couldn't eat, and when I did I was being violently sick, afetr reading a few posts on here re the timing I decided to try a few of the suggestions posted; which was eat quite quickly after injecting, done this and boom, sickness gone, feeling of sickness all but gone ..... great says me, so I continued on ............ at my appointment on friday I got into bother for this.

What I was told was that this week they had a specialist over from the states talking to them about Byetta etc and explained that the time between injecting and eating was crucial and that the sickness feeling was all part of the medication, so I have been told that i HAVE to allow 30 mins between the process ........ i'm back to being sick again !!!!!!

I also got into trouble as I have GAINED weight, not a lot 1kg, but they say that I should have lost and are now blaming the eating too quick and my diet ........ at which point I rhymed off my diet and was told I needed to eat more *** ...... what should I do ??? lol

I also rely a lot on yogurts as a meal, well as a small snack and a lunch, and I have now been told to stop these altogether, not even just cut out grrrrrrrrrrrr ........... I am now receiving so much conflicting info that i'm back to square one .............

any ideas'd ????? Is the time such a big factor as they are making out? and could there be another reason why I am not losing weight on Byetta .... I mean is definately set in stone that on this drug your body has no option but to loose weight?

A slightly confused, Leona xx

 

[Dennis]

Hi Leona,
This "expert" from the US cannot possibly have anything whatsoever to do with the Byetta manufacturers (Eli Lilly Corporation). If he did then there is absolutely no way that he would be giving out contradictory information to that given by Eli Lilly. This is taken from the FAQ section of the official Byetta website:

"You should take your BYETTA doses within 60 minutes (1 hour) before your morning and evening meals (or before your two main meals of the day, approximately 6 hours or more apart).

Do not take BYETTA after eating a meal."

The following is taken from the Patient Information sheet on the Byetta website:

"BYETTA is injected, twice a day, at any time within the 60 minutes (1 hour) before your morning and evening meals (or before the two main meals of the day, approximately 6 hours or more apart). Do not take BYETTA after your meal."

(The words in bold and underlined are theirs not mine - I have just cut and pasted this direct from their website)

Please don't just take my word for it but look it up yourself on http://www.byetta.com or contact the Byetta helpdesk either in the UK or the US. They will be absolutely horrified at what you are being told. Taking your injection after eating is regarded by the manufacturers as highly dangerous and could only be recommended by someone who has absolutely no idea of how this drug works.

Incidentally the sickness feeling is an unfortunate side-effect of the drug, but it is not something that you are "supposed" to get. The weight loss comes in two ways:
a) by slowing the passage of food through the gut which makes you feel fuller for longer, and
b) by fooling receptors in the brain into thinking that you are not hungry.
It does not come about by making you throw up everything you eat, like some king of drug-induced bulimia!

I am seriously very concerned that the information you are being given is exactly what the manufacturers say you must not do. I'm not surprised that you are confused, but please, please, please, get in touch with the Lilly helpdesk and ask their advice.

 

[xxxleonadxxx]

Hi Dennis,

Sorry I think we have cross wires, I haven't been told to take my Byetta AFTER meals, I have been told that I HAVE to leave 30 mins after taking the Byetta before I eat ..... I have to leave this time limit and not eat any sooner.

I was however told, that according to this specialist (or so my DN re-iterated to me) that the feeling sick was 'part of the medicine', although I did explain that I felt sick to the point of actually being sick and rendering myself unable to eat at all ........

I also got into bother for my daily food intake, which through no fault of my own is pathetic lol, I eat a breakfast (usually a roll in sausage as I am unable to make stuff in the office and the only close shop is a greasy roll shop lol) and for lunch, a yogurt and a piece of fruit (or nothing as is now becoming the norm) and for dinner I have sumthing idiotic like toast. This tbh is about all I can stomach at the mo and even with this lesser food intake am gaining weight, which, agaon according to my DN shouldn't be happening ............ which all leads to a confused me lol

Leona.

 

[sixfoot]

leonad, Something seems very askew with all this, How long have you been on Byetta and what doseage? Are your BS levels stable ?

Dave P

 

[xxxleonadxxx]

Hi Dave,

No I do not have stable BS levels, I have been on Byetta now for about 6 weeks (maybe more) I am on 10mg twice daily.

My BS levels have always been high, as I was only recently diagnosed as diabetic, and still unsure as to which type (still waiting on my antibody results) doc has classed me as type 2.

I was put on insulin but was sadly allergic to it (all of them lol) and was put on Byetta instead to see if it worked.

My BS levels were in the high teens but have now come down to about the 9 and 10 mark. They are starting to become more stable, in the sense that they are not altering by that much when I test, generally now within the same range.

I feel a bit confuddled by the whole thing as at first I thought I was doing everything right but now i'm not so sure.

Any advice is greatfully appreciated !!!!!!!!!!

 

[sixfoot]

Leonad, as dennis points out the Official paper with the med states inject anytime up to 60 min before eating. I personaly inject then eat. I havnt heard of anyone else putting on weight on Byetta. What other meds are you on ?

Are you taking any form of exercise ?

What is your diet ( when you are able to keep it down). Do you eat much by way of Cereal - bread - potatoes - pasta- etc all the starchy carbohydrate foods ?.

If the answer is yes look at the Carbs threads, an absolute goldmine of information.
You mention Yoghurts, many are high sugar, When i fancy one i sprinkle half tsp of ground Cinnamon on top. Cinnamon has a lowering effect on BS. Word of caution in large doses Cinnamon can be toxic so dont be tempted to over do it.

Incase your wondering im only up at this ungodly hour because i couldnt get back to sleep ------ Really must get a life

Dave P

 

[Dennis]

Sorry I think we have cross wires, I haven't been told to take my Byetta AFTER meals, I have been told that I HAVE to leave 30 mins after taking the Byetta before I eat ..... I have to leave this time limit and not eat any sooner.

I was however told, that according to this specialist (or so my DN re-iterated to me) that the feeling sick was 'part of the medicine', although I did explain that I felt sick to the point of actually being sick and rendering myself unable to eat at all .........

Hi Leona,
Sorry about the confusion, as you said crossed wires. It is well known among byetta patients that, if you suffer from the dreaded nausea symptoms, you can reduce or even overcome them by injecting immediately before you eat. I have checked through all the official byetta patient and GP advice and nowhere do they recommend this - it is just something that byetta users have worked out for themselves. BUT what the byetta people do say is that you can eat at ANY time from immediately after an injection up to an hour after the injection. So anyone who tells you that you must wait half an hour is talking absolute ****.

The "expert's" other point about the nausea is complete rubbish. Nausea is an unfortunate side effect of the medication, and one that Lilly have taken steps to overcome in their new long-action version that should be on the market next year (this year in the States). It is certainly NOT what the medication is supposed to achieve. If you think about it, 60% of byetta patients have never suffered nausea (myself and Dave included), but according to this "expert" that must mean that the drug isn't working for us. As I said. this just goes to show how LITTLE this guy knows about the product! In fact I have a suspicion that your DSN has been telling you porkies, because no diabetologist could possibly have such little knowledge of how this product works, especially one from the US where byetta is rapidly becoming the standard Type-2 treatment rather than the rarity it still is over here.

As you said yourself your food intake is pathetic - and I certainly can't argue with that!!!
Breakfast - sausages are high carbohydrate (most contain more cereal than meat) and the grease is the worst possible thing for anyone who suffers from byetta nausea.
Lunch - nearly all carbohydrate
Tea - all carbohydrate.

No wonder you are putting on weight - its not the amount of food you are eating that is causing this. It is the type of food. You need to be eating much more protein (eggs, meat, cheese, nuts) plus vegetables and NONE of what you are eating! If you have time for a sausage for breakfast then you must have time to boil yourself a couple of eggs, or fry them with some bacon?

For lunch, if there is nowhere around that you can get something healthy, then why not prepare a cheese or ham or tuna or salmon salad and take it with you in a tupperware?

For tea, anything would be better than just a slice of toast. What about an omelette, if you don't like cooking even a ready-meal from the supermarket would be better for you.

What I suggest is that you first ignore the DSN's completely incorrect advice. Inject just before you eat and this will help prevent the nausea. Once the nausea stops, then you will want to eat and you will find that you can eat far more in quantity than you are presently doing, and LOSE WEIGHT AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[xxxleonadxxx]

Hi there Dave,

I am on other meds, I take glucophage, gliclazide, ramipril and levothyroxine. I do exercise, not as much since taking Byetta as it makes me feel v unwell, usual was gym 3 times per week but at the mo I am restricted to walking the dog, walking with the kids or a sunday cycle. I always aim for 30mins per day @ least, and always make sure its enough to get the ole heart rate going, recent acquisition to the house has been a stepper and a treadmill ..... having fun on these at the mo lol.

My yogurts, I was first directed to them by my dietician, its the low fat activia yogurts, I was told these were ok .... my roll n sausage is my vice in the mornings (from a shop sadly not cooked by myself)

I have read threads on the carb factor on here ...... I have never really been told that much in the way of foods etc, just to watch what I eat .... ie calorie count, although a temp DN I saw once told me I should follow a low GI diet and told me to look it up on the net, I think I did but dunno what happened next lol ............

 

[sixfoot]

Leonad Dennis s advice is as good as you will get anywhere, Getting over the Nausea should be possible with injecting just before you eat. Thats not a guarantee though! I went onto Byetta just about the same time i found this site and its valuable info on Nutrition etc. I determined that if i was ever going to get the Podge off this was the time so made the switch to Lo Carb. In all honesty ive not felt hungry since. Odd times when i get an attack of the munchies i try to have nuts around.

There is another ingredient you cant really buy and that is self - discipline.

Dave P

 

[xxxleonadxxx]

Hi all,

I thought that was the case with the Byetta and I did argue by saying that it helped me when I ate not long after injecting, but, as I say, DN insists leaving the 30min window ...... for some reason from the start I have been affected by the sickness but have just accepted it, as tbh whats my other alternative, imaginative ways of getting insulin (that i'm allergic to) into my body and probably getting sick that way too lol ........

I also have to admit that I thought my diet was ok, a bit on the sparse side but otherwise ok, and my dietician is always fully aware of what I eat/have ate and had never complained before ...... I think I will have to re-assess my entire food intake.

Another thing that I have noticed on the site, sorry if i'm going off on one here, is that they say Byetta is giving to those with high BMI's ..... i've been told mine is normal, a few less punds wouldn't hurt me but other than that I am of average size.

I am looking more into the low GI diets, although I have found one which will deliver the food to your door for £55 quid a week ..... could be worth considering, willsee !!!!!!

 

[Dennis]

Hi Leona,
I wouldn't get too uptight about the BMI. This is simply a guideline laid down by NICE that, unless unusual circumstances apply, only patients with a BMI of 31 or more should be considered. In your case with intolerance of injected insulin, it is the "unusual circumstances" that qualify you.

Your choice is to follow the advice that your DSN has given (and please believe me, not all diabetes consultants are too familiar with how Byetta works, let alone DSNs), or follow the advice of the byetta manufacturers and experienced byetta users. That DSN advice will most likely
a) not reduce your BG
b) will ensure continued weight gain
c) will ensure that the nausea simply continues until eventually they have to take you off the medication on the grounds that you cannot tolerate it.

When it comes to your dietician, your present diet is appalling by any standards, but she thinks it is ok!!! Just what does that tell you about your dietician?

Let me make a suggestion. Just try for one week taking your injection immediately before you eat. Your DSN doesn't need to know. You will still be following the guidelines laid down by the manufacturers, rather than some ****-eyed idea thought up by a DSN. That should allow you to overcome the present nausea so that you will feel more like eating a diet that will allow you to control your diabetes. As long as you are so sick that you really can't face anything except yoghurt and toast you won't be able to control anything.

 

[sixfoot]

Leonad injecting just before eating is what i do and dont suffer any ill - effects. As for getting it in the neck a lot of those on this site follow lo Carb/ gi diets and that in its self is against conventional diabetes guidance from GPS etc. As dennis says give it a go for a week and see for your self. Ultimatly seeing for yourself is how most of us have got the knowledge we have

Good luck
Dave P

 

[xxxleonadxxx]

Hi Guys,

I agree, ad I know eating quite quickly after injecting makes me feel better .... worked in the past ...... I just can't help but think, if I hadn't found this site to be able to get the constructive advice from I would have accepted my DNs words as gospel ...... after all they ARE supposed to be the knowledgable ones ......

I want to change my diet, I really do, just struggling ...... although 2nite I actually cooked a healthy meal for the first time in a wee while lol

 

[sixfoot]

Leonad ................. To go to the moon the first thing you have to do is get out of bed. Doing your own meals is just such a step.

Good on ya
Dave P

 

[Dennis]

Leona,
Good on ya! You've taken the first steps in taking charge of your diabetes. And I have a feeling you will learn fast and won't look back from here on.