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High Blood Sugar due to flu jab?

x Carol x

x Carol x

Well-Known Member
Messages
70
Location
Stockport, UK
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi, I had the flu jab 4 weeks ago and ever since then I have had high blood sugar, especially so between meals. I normally have to eat a snack mid-morning and mid-evening to prevent hypos but now my blood sugar is around 18mmol at these times no matter how much insulin I inject, so it's as if something is blocking the insulin. I wondered if this could be caused by something in the flu jab? I'm not taking any other medication or supplements. I hope someone can help. Thanks, Carol
 
Carol

What type of insulin/meds are you on, and what is your daily dose? This might help shed some light on the situation?
Also, what kind of things are you eating, have you changed it recently etc.

Another thought, were you in honeymoon period and maybe now thats ended? I dont know about flu jab but I know someone whose bs was great until they had the flu and that ended their honeymoon period. Dont know the physiology of why this should be though. What you say sounds like insulin resistance but I dont know if this would make sense until you post what type?


L
 
I haven't seen that pattern develop. I would have expected you to get over the flu jab within a week. You can get more insulin resistant in the winter though. Have you changed your exercise, eating or sleeping pattern?
 
Hi everyone, thanks for the replies.

I'm on Novomix 30 twice a day. My usual dose used to be 8 in the morning and 8 in the evening but now I've been injecting 14 units twice a day but it makes no difference. I have changed the disposable pen since. I've been type 1 since July 2007 and I don't think I had a honeymoon period. I actually do eat a very good diet eg. brown rice, veg, seeded bread etc. and I don't drink. I haven't changed my eating habits or my exercise.

I have had problems though this year with omega 3 supplements I was taking which affected my blood sugar in the same way. When I realised it was the supplements, I stopped taking them and noticed it took around 3 weeks for my blood to get back to normal. I have since tried different strengths and makes but all with the same effect. I had just come off the last lot when I had the flu jab.

It does seem to me that something is blocking the insulin or I'm resistant to it in some way. :(

Carol
 
It could be that your pancreas was producing some insulin but no longer is doing so. Your diet sounds like it could be quite high in carbohydrates. Mixed insulins are convenient but don't always cover every meal, particularly lunch and bedtime snacks very well. Maybe it is time for you to move to several injections a day of long acting basal insulin and separate faster acting insulin for meals.

What would help is if you would please post the pattern of your blood sugars over the day and preferably a 3am bs too. If you listed these and what you have eaten at each meal or snack it could give us some helpful clues.

The main thing is, is there any time in the 24 hours that you have normal bs and can the spikes be attributable to meals?
 
Carol

ditto what Katherine says- it sounds like you were in a bit of honeymoon period(pancreas still making some of own insulin) and thats now ended. If so, thats over a year - so good going!

Am on premixed 30/70 insulin too and due to my being in honeymoon period dropped from 24 units per day to 9 in total, and all my pre meal readings are between 5-7. Like you said, with our type of insulin you tend need to snack to avoid hypos and if you are not holding steady at meal times then you are not likely holding steady between.
I know that my post meal readings arent what I would like them to be but increasing insulin for this reason would guarantee hypos (esp at tea time) so for now Im just sticking. If you arent get good readings, maybe give it another couple of weeks and then consider contacting Diabetes clinic to discuss change in regime?

FWIW, I had my first every flu jab this year and it made no discernible difference to my bs/

Hope you get it sorted

L
 
Decided to phone the diabetic nurse tomorrow and see what she says but I will also make a note of the food I eat and bsl's and also do one at 3am-ish and post it for you later this week. It would be interesting to know what you think of the food I eat :)
 
Hi all, sorry for the delay in replying. I finally saw the diab nurse on Monday. She said it sounds like I had insulin resistance due to the omega 3 supplements but doesn't know why the flu jab should continue that effect.

Anyway, I'm pleased to report my blood sugar is back to normal. All my readings are now under 10. I asked the nurse about reducing carbs and she said that since I'm an active person (I cycle for around 50 mins a day) I shouldn't reduce my carb intake cos I need it for energy. Everyone on here seems to go on about low carbs and I'm wondering where on earth you get your energy from?
 
x Carol x said:
Hi all, sorry for the delay in replying. I finally saw the diab nurse on Monday. She said it sounds like I had insulin resistance due to the omega 3 supplements but doesn't know why the flu jab should continue that effect.

Anyway, I'm pleased to report my blood sugar is back to normal. All my readings are now under 10. I asked the nurse about reducing carbs and she said that since I'm an active person (I cycle for around 50 mins a day) I shouldn't reduce my carb intake cos I need it for energy. Everyone on here seems to go on about low carbs and I'm wondering where on earth you get your energy from?
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Hi Carol,
I am very surprised by your diabetic nurse's comments about Omega-3 supplements. Far from causing insulin resistance Omega-3 is recommended because it reduces insulin resistance! That would also explain her inane comment that someone who's BS is only just below 10 would not benefit from a reduction in carbs. The BNF (British National Formulary - the health profession's "bible" regarding treatments for all conditions) actually recommends that diabetes patients should be told to increase exercise and to reduce carbohydrates. The advice you are being given does not even follow medical guidelines.

Yes, you do need a certain level of carbohydrates to maintain energy, but these need to come from healthy foods like vegetables and fruits, not from starches that simply fill you up temporarily, cause a huge raise in your blood sugar, and then leave you feeling hungry a couple of hours later. Those of us who are doing very well on a reduced carbohydrate diet (in my case around 120-150g carbs per day) nearly all find that our energy levels are hugely increased on reduced carbs.
 
Agree with Dennis (not surpisingly!) Improving the Omega 3/6 balance improves lipids pretty directly and all manner of other conditions indirectly, I have more than a little suspicion that one of the failure modes of low fat diets is to further reduce an already low quantity of dietary Omega 3.

Although my IR currently calculates as very low my energy levels drop off alarmingly at high as well as low BG numbers, if I concentrate I can feel it start around 7 and it becomes quite noticeable around 8: over 10 and I am quite poleaxed. My suspicion is that the IR comes back and affects the GLUT-4 muscle receptors which shut down and fail to transport glucose properly - this effect seems to last for a few hours after hitting an unwanted high. By closely controlling my BG, which in my case means around 60 - 100g carbs/day, I essentially have all the energy I need. You can convert protein to glucose and also run to some degree on ketones, it may take a while for your body to readapt from a high glucose environment to something safer but many of us seem to have survived for years on what we have been told are lethally low levels of carb input.

This obviously varies between individuals, but even some Type 1s find their insulin ratios change when reducing a high high over reducing a moderate high while others are totally unaffected by IR even after eating deep fried Mars bars and hitting stratospheric numbers.
 
Thanks for the replies. Sorry, when I said my bg is under 10, I just mean it's always under ten, even after meals. Before meals it's around 4 - 6mmol.

Eating the exact same diet, whilst I was taking the supplements, my between meal reading was always around 18mmol. I've also read elsewhere that high levels of omega 3 can impair blood glucose control in some diabetics. Maybe I was just taking far too much or it was something in the capsule. I'm now eating ground linseeds every day which are great for omega 3 and I don't have the high bg problem.

I don't know what my carb count is but I'll tell you what a typical day's food is:

Breakfast; 2 pieces seeded toast, banana, Mid-morning; 2 yumbles biscuits to prevent hypo, lunch; ryvita with salad and tuna, tea; roasted veg, sweet potato and chicken, bowl of fruit, Mid-evening; cereal bar and satsuma at work to prevent hypo, Supper; bowl of oatiflakes.

I have eaten a mainly veg, fruit and protein diet before now but found I got really hungry. I could also do with putting on a kilo or 2 so what's the best way to do that? (Actually, all the mince pies I'll eat over christmas will prob solve that one :D )

I'm currently injecting 10 units of novomix 30 in the morning and 8 in the evening.

Thanks in advance.
 
Of course another possibility is that while waiting for the flu jab you actually caught some minor infection in the surgery and this has now cleared up. The way they ran things where we used to live was appalling from the infection control POV, get all the elderly patients to come in together and sit in the waiting room for hours exchanging viruses and bacteria while waiting for the flu jab.
 
Dennis said:
I am very surprised by your diabetic nurse's comments about Omega-3 supplements. Far from causing insulin resistance Omega-3 is recommended because it reduces insulin resistance! That would also explain her inane comment that someone who's BS is only just below 10 would not benefit from a reduction in carbs. The BNF (British National Formulary - the health profession's "bible" regarding treatments for all conditions) actually recommends that diabetes patients should be told to increase exercise and to reduce carbohydrates. The advice you are being given does not even follow medical guidelines.

Yes, you do need a certain level of carbohydrates to maintain energy, but these need to come from healthy foods like vegetables and fruits, not from starches that simply fill you up temporarily, cause a huge raise in your blood sugar, and then leave you feeling hungry a couple of hours later. Those of us who are doing very well on a reduced carbohydrate diet (in my case around 120-150g carbs per day) nearly all find that our energy levels are hugely increased on reduced carbs.
Click to expand...

With respect, Dennis, we're all different. What raises one person's bs may reduce another's, be it bread, omega3 or a particular medication. For that reason we should also be cautious about anything/anyone (even the BNF) who says patients should increase/reduce something - it depends how much they're doing/eating already and whether that suits them. I don't need more insulin just because most people are on a bigger dose than me. A lifelong non-smoker does not need telling to "stop smoking". What is "reduced carb" to some would be "normal" to others, and "excessive" to yet others. Guidelines should really say diabetics need to have an active lifestyle and balance their diet/exercise/medication and this may mean reducing carbs and increasing exercise. Carol's regime may be appropriate for her.
 
Thanks Little Sue. My second hba1c was 6.5 and this was while I still ate white pasta and apple strudels. :shock: I then switched white for brown but haven't cut carb content down so I'll be interested to see what my next hba1c is. Maybe all the exercise I do helps with me, but like you say we are all different.

And yes i could have caught an infection cos I didn't feel great for a while after the flu jab. Oh well, I guess I'll never know for sure but at least I'm responding to the insulin now and my levels are back to normal (if not better). Thanks everyone for the input. x
 
x Carol x said:
Hi, I had the flu jab 4 weeks ago and ever since then I have had high blood sugar, especially so between meals. I normally have to eat a snack mid-morning and mid-evening to prevent hypos but now my blood sugar is around 18mmol at these times no matter how much insulin I inject, so it's as if something is blocking the insulin. I wondered if this could be caused by something in the flu jab? I'm not taking any other medication or supplements. I hope someone can help. Thanks, Carol
Click to expand...
Hi Carol,
I'm having the same problem. Sugar has been high in the AM for weeks now. Haven't changed my diet or done anything different. Had the flu shot back in late Oct. I know that has to be it. Had never had the flu shot. Its my first time. Will never do it again. Would love your feedback. Maria :-) from New YOrk
 
Hi @mariaradman. Very interesting to read my posts from nearly 9 years ago lol! I'm no longer eating such a carby diet and my hba1c is now around 5.5% (and still dropping thanks to the Libre). I'm now on basal/bolus regime and not the novomix. I still cannot tolerate the flu jab, omega 3, cod liver oil or (as I recently discovered) raw eggs. They all cause insulin resistance which lasts for a few weeks. The egg and oil thing seems to be due to choline/acetylcholine so maybe there is something in the flu jab which affects my system the same way. I am prone to getting insulin resistance about four times per month which I am currently plotting to see if there is a pattern. I combat it by increasing my basal dose until my IR clears again. In your case it's possible too that it could be the flu jab but it's been quite a while since you had it. It's good to be a aware that certain things can affect your glucose control. You could experiment next year to see if the same thing happens and then make your mind up. Improving your health is a journey of self-discovery and detective work and I'm still learning :-)
 
Hi @carol x....Thank you so much for writing back!!! Thanks for all the information. Is Libre an oral med? I will do more investigating. This was my 1st flu jab....that's why I know that's it. Hopefully I'll get better. Still looking for another med that will lower my A1C. Presently on Humalog and Lantus. I don't think I'll take the flu shot again. Thanks again and you can write anytime.
 
x Carol x said:
Hi @mariaradman. Very interesting to read my posts from nearly 9 years ago lol! I'm no longer eating such a carby diet and my hba1c is now around 5.5% (and still dropping thanks to the Libre). I'm now on basal/bolus regime and not the novomix. I still cannot tolerate the flu jab, omega 3, cod liver oil or (as I recently discovered) raw eggs. They all cause insulin resistance which lasts for a few weeks. The egg and oil thing seems to be due to choline/acetylcholine so maybe there is something in the flu jab which affects my system the same way. I am prone to getting insulin resistance about four times per month which I am currently plotting to see if there is a pattern. I combat it by increasing my basal dose until my IR clears again. In your case it's possible too that it could be the flu jab but it's been quite a while since you had it. It's good to be a aware that certain things can affect your glucose control. You could experiment next year to see if the same thing happens and then make your mind up. Improving your health is a journey of self-discovery and detective work and I'm still learning :)
Click to expand...
Hi Carol-did you get my reply. Thanks for all the beneficial information you sent me. It so very interesting. What is this about the egg and oil thing due to choline/acetylcholine? Never heard of that. I love eggs especially for breakfast. I have egg whites and maybe 2 whole eggs per week. I truly appreciate all your information towards helping manage my Diabetes Type 2. Gratefully Maria.
 
@mariaradman Just seen your reply :-) I only check the forum now and again as I'm just busy with work etc..

Some people have probs with the choline build up if they eat raw eggs. It can cause insomnia in some people (and insulin resistance in me) but cooked eggs are fine for me. I don't know much about managing type 2 other than most people on here seem to go on low carb diets to get better control. Have you seen there is a type 2 section? Also check out the low carb section.

Libre is Freestyle Libre which is a continuous glucose monitoring system with a sensor which is attached to your arm and you can scan it to get your glucose readings instead of having to prick your finger. The prime minister Teresa May has one!

There are some very knowledgable people on this forum so just take your time and read everything you can and hopefully it will help you getting a better a1c. Carol x
 
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