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High Fat Low Carb - bad for long term health

N

netter

Active Member
Messages
37
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
I've been reading here about how hflc has helped so many people to control their blood sugar levels.

Searching online for diets that are best for the heart i found ref to a number of books which seek to limit fat, and increase carbs (although these are healthy carbs)- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002

It seems there is evidence that a deit that is based around plant foods, low in fat and protein is best in terms of looking after the heart. It also seems that Bill Clinton has adopted a similar diet following his heart ops.

I was wondering if people had differing views on this or if hflc could live along side these sorts of diets given they both people to consume no refined carbs.

http://dresselstyn.com/spanish_study.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study

http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseases/heart-and-cardiovascular/reversing-coronary-artery-disease-1
''
If you want to try cleaning out your arteries, take a look at the program recommended by Dr. Dean Ornish. These include his "reversal diet" (a mostly vegetarian diet that delivers no more than 10 percent of calories from fat and fewer than 5 milligrams of cholesterol a day), daily exercise, stress management, and group support. In a small trial that started out with 48 volunteers, cholesterol-clogged plaque shrank a small amount in the group following these changes compared with an increase in plaque in a control group. Another option is the plant-based, oil-free diet advocated by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. A third option is what researchers euphemistically call caloric restriction. It basically means eating a healthful, balanced diet that delivers all the nutrients you need but with 15 percent to 25 percent fewer calories than you are probably eating now.''
 
Yep, eat to your meter and if you need or want to have more carbs take the meds that will let you.

The main thing is to get your BG in line and have a healthy weight, BP and lipids

Fats and carbs are a seesaw, as you increase one you reduce the other.
 
I ate that way for 6 years, then I contracted Diabetes. So no thankyou. I will now eat the way humans were meant to.
 
I love liver, and the marrow goes into slow slow cooked meats. Yum, slurrrrp.
 
Yes, Eat to your Meter is always good advice for blood sugar control and I think you will find the carbs are the main offender. Now, for weight control I would say it's the carbs you need to watch. Whatever source of information you use trace back to where the science is and challenge the sources again and again. For example the NHS and DUK advise lots of starchy carbs for us, low-fat, low-salt etc and much of this info cannot be traced back to any good scientific research. Much of the cholesterol debate assumes wrongly that cholesterol in the blood results from the same causes as plaque deposited in the arteries; it doesn't hence the low-fat thing can be challenged. As for protein being bad for the heart that's a new one and I bet it is based on bad science?
 
Not looked at all your links but I choose to follow a Mediterranean style diet that is known to be beneficial for long term health.
 
No evidence at all that a low cholesterol diet is required for a healthy heart. Most cholesterol is produced by the liver rather than from dietary sources.

Gone are the days of limiting egg intake for example, a great source of easily digestible protein and most of the essential amino acids.
 
netter said:
I've been reading here about how hflc has helped so many people to control their blood sugar levels.

Searching online for diets that are best for the heart i found ref to a number of books which seek to limit fat, and increase carbs (although these are healthy carbs)- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Prevent-Reverse-Heart-Disease-Nutrition-Based/dp/1583333002

It seems there is evidence that a deit that is based around plant foods, low in fat and protein is best in terms of looking after the heart. It also seems that Bill Clinton has adopted a similar diet following his heart ops.

I was wondering if people had differing views on this or if hflc could live along side these sorts of diets given they both people to consume no refined carbs.

http://dresselstyn.com/spanish_study.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study

http://healthyliving.msn.com/diseases/heart-and-cardiovascular/reversing-coronary-artery-disease-1
''
If you want to try cleaning out your arteries, take a look at the program recommended by Dr. Dean Ornish. These include his "reversal diet" (a mostly vegetarian diet that delivers no more than 10 percent of calories from fat and fewer than 5 milligrams of cholesterol a day), daily exercise, stress management, and group support. In a small trial that started out with 48 volunteers, cholesterol-clogged plaque shrank a small amount in the group following these changes compared with an increase in plaque in a control group. Another option is the plant-based, oil-free diet advocated by Dr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn Jr. A third option is what researchers euphemistically call caloric restriction. It basically means eating a healthful, balanced diet that delivers all the nutrients you need but with 15 percent to 25 percent fewer calories than you are probably eating now.''
Click to expand...

The internet is full of contradictions and the trick is working out mainstream science from ratbag science - they sometimes claim creds. that are not true.
As far as I know, cleaning out arteries is very dangerous - it is plaque and when plaque breaks away it can lodge somewhere that will cause a stroke. So I take the above report with a grain of salt.
 
You have to define what you mean by low carb high fat.
If you mean a diet of 80%+ fat as in Jimmy Moore's meal described here:
http://livinlavidalowcarb.com/blog/jimmy-moores-n1-experiments-nutritional-ketosis-day-61-90/15125
then I would say that no-one knows the long term health consequences of such diets. There have been no long term studies, no societies (including the Inuits whose diet included vast amounts of omega 3s ) have eaten like that.

We know something about healthful patterns of eating though because we can look at healthy societies/people and see what these people tend to eat. (and also how they tend to live since diet is only one factor of peoples lives which impacts on health)

The Med diet which is considered to be very 'heart' healthy is not particularly low in fat (around 40%, it varies according to which particularl Med diet is considered ) It is lower in saturated fat and higher in monounsaturated fat (from olives, walnuts etc) and omega 3s from oily fish . The SW French diet (home of the French Paradox) also contains lots of monounsat fat (olive oil rather than butter, fair amounts of fish, walnuts and hazelnuts, all parts of the duck) . Both dietary patterns include some sat fat from dairy. They are based on fruit and veg and some legumes. (plus wine!)

People in the so called Blue Zones ie cultures/groups that have lots of Centenarians tend to eat high amounts of veg including legumes (though they are not exclusively vegetarian. But the rest of their lifestyle is obviously important .
(The Med diet 'pyramid' has activity at the bottom and it forms an important part of all the cultures in the Blue zones)


David Katz in a recent review of several dietary patterns included low carb (but not the very high fat version recently being suggested, more the latest version of Atkins and Eco Atkins) He looks at properties of a healthful diet and research that has demonstrated this. He discusses how these diets actually share many healthful factors.
It is an easy paper to read and (I think) worth reading
His conclusion is that we do know what a healthy diet looks like, and it is much the same as Pollan said 'eat food, not too much, mostly plants'

a) diets comprising preferentially minimally processed foods direct from nature and food made up of such ingredients,
(b) diets comprising mostly plants, a
(c) diets in which animal foods are themselves the products, directly or ultimately, of pure plant foods
Click to expand...
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-publhealth-032013-182351
 
netter said:
Searching online for diets that are best for the heart i found ref to a number of books which seek to limit fat, and increase carbs (although these are healthy carbs)-'
Click to expand...

There's no such thing as "healthy" and "un-healthy" carbs... When it comes to BG, carbs are carbs.
 
The GI & GL with regards to carbs need to be understood. I don't believe in the theory it is all right to eat all carbs some in moderation. It is better to avoid the "worse" ones such as potatoes & bread and eat more of the"better" ones. For example a punnet of strawberries is better for you than a banana which is best avoided?
 
G'day all,
I call this;
ASK BLIND FREDDY​

With all the pros and cons we tend to forget what we are trying to do.

We are trying to get our minds and bodies as close to NORMAL GOOD HEALTH as possible.

We each have our own personal starting point - so we have to have our own strategy. If for example our starting point includes obesity then our strategy should include whatever is necessary to deal with obesity AND a time frame to do it in.

As we approach our goals, we should be resetting our inputs = food and outputs = activity (not the same as exercise) as close to normal as possible.

We all know that radical diets long term will leave us with a deficiency, The question we all have to ask ourselves is how long are we prepared to risk our health on a radical diet???

Your strategy for keeping your weight down might be smoking tobacco products and only eating vita wheat and bacon and eggs. I would not recommend it but it might work with a few multi vitamins for a very short time but long term?

Even Blind Freddy would predict an early demise, and he would not need a crystal ball.







 
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