High numbers despite six week LCHF

[Canadian_cousin]

I would appreciate some feedback on some unexpected setbacks I seem to be having. I am a 10 year type two diabetic, previously on insulin, but through diet, I have been off insulin for over five years. I have been following a low glycemic, complex carb, Mediterranean-style diet with lots of 'healthy' grain carbs,but obviously it wasn't working.

I take Januvia for high morning numbers,and it seemed to be working for a number of years. I have huge negative reactions to drugs like metformin so can't take them. I have been taking Lipitor and then Crestor for over 12 years which hugely lower my chloresterol, but recent mainstream research tells us that this was unnecessary, and bogus science. .This winter I started having a large increase in my morning numbers, and slowness in my numbers coming down after eating , sores on my toes and a problem with inflammation all over my body, including my bowel. So I started looking for a reputable alternatives.
Rather than more drugs, I decided to try first the LCHF diet ( around 50 carbs or less a day)and have been doing very well on it for more than six weeks. My inflammation is down hugely, and my toes healed up perfectly. My morning fasting numbers are still high, and after testing my blood at 3 AM, 6 AM and 8 AM, I find that the Dawn phenomenon is still pushing me into the tens and 11's. I have read that the Statin drugs can increase insulin resistance, affect morning numbers, and can cause inflammation. I have also read that some people take a good while for their liver to stop putting glucose into their system, both in the morning and throughout the day, despite careful compliance with LCHF. Unfortunately, I could only find secondary sources on this. I am testing for ketones, and find that I usually have trace elements or am at a minimal level, but in the morning the high blood glucose defeats this. I wonder if any of you have personal experience with this situation, or have read any good recent scientific data. Unfortunately the Internet is a bog of blog BS and I think that your forum is the most sensible, and reliable for both anecdotal and scientific opinion. I would very much appreciate any links to recent scientific information, or specific personal anecdotal information. The older Statin research I find is mainly centred on the fact that statins seem to increase people's chance of developing diabetes. That's not what I'm interested in, but rather the ongoing effect on our systems of taking statins, and why some people's bodies seem not to respond to the low carb diet as general experience with others indicates it should. At this point I am not looking for radical weight change, but a sustainable lifestyle change that will help heal my body. The recipes, and intelligent and knowledgable forum discussions have been of great support these last few weeks. Thank you. Hopefully you can help steer me to more knowledge.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

This lady is worth a read. She has also been interviewed on Youtube.

https://www.spacedoc.com/articles/why-statins-do-more-harm-than-good.

In addition it seems that some people are capable of leading a double life by claiming a certain diet and yet being secret snackers. Others do not understand the nature of processed food adequately and eat more carbs than they know of. The subject of healthy eating is also a minefield in that absolutely everyone has a different version of it.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi and welcome!

Just to clarify - are you still taking statins?

I think that LCHF works very well for most of us T2s. But unfortunately it isn't the whole story for all of us.

Some of us don't lose the weight we would like, at the speed that others do.
Some of us have the whole dawn phenomenon thing going, which mucks up our chance of getting into ketosis.
Some of us have additional hormonal chaos that just puts everything off kilter.

I am gradually expanding my knowledge (I am someone who controls their bg well on LCHF, but I lost some weight, then stalled and insulin resistance remains high). There are some areas you may find interesting:
- Jason Fung (of Intermittent Fasting Fame). He has a good website and blog.
- Eric Berg - his angle is the hormones, and how different hormonal imbalances and nutritional imbalances affect us - Adrenals, thyroid, pituitry and knock on effect on liver
- A key for me is Vitamin D (and K2 and calcium and magnesium) which ties in well with Berg. Being Vit D deficient plays merry hell with huge numbers of systems.

For me, I no longer prioritise weight loss (though it would be nice!). I want to reduce my insulin resistance, eliminate my atypical dawn phenomenon and feel well.

If I were you, I would have a quick tour of those 3 subjects, if only to eliminate them as possibilities.

For some of us, a multi-pronged approach is necessary. Unfortunately, as soon as you start adding those 'prongs' you stray off the beaten path, and find that there isn't really enough research, or rigorous examination, so you end up following your nose and working blind. Not ideal, but sometimes unavoidable.

Hope that helps.

 

[bulkbiker]

Have you considered intermittent fasting? Check out Dr Fung for that too and he's Canadian as well..
Bit extreme but I have just broken a 4 day fast and achieved my best ever numbers.. FBG 4.5 this morning and this afternoon before eating 4.1. Some people find that a 16:8 fasting regime works well for them i.e. don't eat for 16 hours and fit your eating into the remaining 8. There are lots of threads on fasting on the forum.. I find it has rebooted my weight loss after a brief stall nd has certainly helped to bring my blood sugars down and this was after 6 months on an LCHF diet. Don;t give up after 6 week but be very careful about carbs.. I try to eat as few as possible... just had cod wrapped in streaky bacon with spinach wilted in butter with yoghurt and double cream to follow.
Dr Fung is on www.dietdoctor.com and has his own website
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com
have a read around you may find it a bit inspirational..
All the best
Mark

 

[Canadian_cousin]

This lady is worth a read. She has also been interviewed on Youtube.

https://www.spacedoc.com/articles/why-statins-do-more-harm-than-good.

In addition it seems that some people are capable of leading a double life by claiming a certain diet and yet being secret snackers. Others do not understand the nature of processed food adequately and eat more carbs than they know of. The subject of healthy eating is also a minefield in that absolutely everyone has a different version of it.

This lady is worth a read. She has also been interviewed on Youtube.

https://www.spacedoc.com/articles/why-statins-do-more-harm-than-good.

In addition it seems that some people are capable of leading a double life by claiming a certain diet and yet being secret snackers. Others do not understand the nature of processed food adequately and eat more carbs than they know of. The subject of healthy eating is also a minefield in that absolutely everyone has a different version of it.

Thanks for your reply. And I hear you about secret snacking and the hidden carbs. I have been relentlessly looking up carb contents of things like sugar-free Ricola lozenges ...3.5!I will check out your connection! Many thanks

 

[Canadian_cousin]

Hi and welcome!

Just to clarify - are you still taking statins?

I think that LCHF works very well for most of us T2s. But unfortunately it isn't the whole story for all of us.

Some of us don't lose the weight we would like, at the speed that others do.
Some of us have the whole dawn phenomenon thing going, which mucks up our chance of getting into ketosis.
Some of us have additional hormonal chaos that just puts everything off kilter.

I am gradually expanding my knowledge (I am someone who controls their bg well on LCHF, but I lost some weight, then stalled and insulin resistance remains high). There are some areas you may find interesting:
- Jason Fung (of Intermittent Fasting Fame). He has a good website and blog.
- Eric Berg - his angle is the hormones, and how different hormonal imbalances and nutritional imbalances affect us - Adrenals, thyroid, pituitry and knock on effect on liver
- A key for me is Vitamin D (and K2 and calcium and magnesium) which ties in well with Berg. Being Vit D deficient plays merry hell with huge numbers of systems.

For me, I no longer prioritise weight loss (though it would be nice!). I want to reduce my insulin resistance, eliminate my atypical dawn phenomenon and feel well.

If I were you, I would have a quick tour of those 3 subjects, if only to eliminate them as possibilities.

For some of us, a multi-pronged approach is necessary. Unfortunately, as soon as you start adding those 'prongs' you stray off the beaten path, and find that there isn't really enough research, or rigorous examination, so you end up following your nose and working blind. Not ideal, but sometimes unavoidable.

Hope that helps.

Many thanks for your reply! I am still on statins, but want more research before I go off of them. I'm seeing my doctor very soon to consult about this, but figured I needed to be better informed before I spoke to her. I don't know anything about intermittent fasting, so I will have to find out. And you're right, for some of us who have always been atypical in our numbers and responses to drugs may have to search further for what works. I am trying to follow up on the hormonal aspects of irregular numbers and Dawn phenomenon. I will follow up on your leads. Many thanks

 

[Canadian_cousin]

Have you considered intermittent fasting? Check out Dr Fung for that too and he's Canadian as well..
Bit extreme but I have just broken a 4 day fast and achieved my best ever numbers.. FBG 4.5 this morning and this afternoon before eating 4.1. Some people find that a 16:8 fasting regime works well for them i.e. don't eat for 16 hours and fit your eating into the remaining 8. There are lots of threads on fasting on the forum.. I find it has rebooted my weight loss after a brief stall nd has certainly helped to bring my blood sugars down and this was after 6 months on an LCHF diet. Don;t give up after 6 week but be very careful about carbs.. I try to eat as few as possible... just had cod wrapped in streaky bacon with spinach wilted in butter with yoghurt and double cream to follow.
Dr Fung is on www.dietdoctor.com and has his own website
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com
have a read around you may find it a bit inspirational..
All the best
Mark

Thank you for your lead on the intermittent fasting. I am a little leery about fasting because I know I react badly when I go too long without eating, but I'll have to see what Dr. Fung has to say, and the evidence that he presents. When so many of the bedrock beliefs we had about chloresterol and low fat and low calorie diets have been blown out of the water with recent research, I know I have to keep an open mind. The process of winnowing out the solid information is a little difficult, and it's often difficult to sort out the references, and their quality of real science. When the American Heart Association still insists on pushing statins and lowering chloresterol in spite of that myth having been exploded by solid research, it makes it hard to figure out who to believe! And you are entirely right about not giving up after six weeks! I will persevere. Many thanks

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Thanks for your reply. And I hear you about secret snacking and the hidden carbs. I have been relentlessly looking up carb contents of things like sugar-free Ricola lozenges ...3.5!I will check out your connection! Many thanks

That's 3.5g of sugar alcohols. While sugar alcohols do contain calories, our bodies cannot digest and convert those carbs into useable energy. Therefore, you should not see a spike from those cough drops.

 

[Daphne917]

Many thanks for your reply! I am still on statins, but want more research before I go off of them. I'm seeing my doctor very soon to consult about this, but figured I needed to be better informed before I spoke to her. I don't know anything about intermittent fasting, so I will have to find out. And you're right, for some of us who have always been atypical in our numbers and responses to drugs may have to search further for what works. I am trying to follow up on the hormonal aspects of irregular numbers and Dawn phenomenon. I will follow up on your leads. Many thanks

When I started taking statins my hba1c went up from 48 to 54. Since coming off them due to other side effects and reducing my carbs my hba1c is now down to 36. Although my cholesterol went down from 5.4 to 3.1 I have made the decision not to take them again.

 

[KevinPotts]

Like Mark, regular fasting is included in my weekly diet on LCHF with 36 hours once a week, it seems to be helping my DP and certainly my numbers which consistently average 4s-5s at any point in the week. One thing I continue to struggle with, is waking up, bright and alert between 5 and 6 am each morning. Not sure if that will settle down or my metabolic clock is just resting itself to the norms for my system.

 

[Canadian_cousin]

That's 3.5g of sugar alcohols. While sugar alcohols do contain calories, our bodies cannot digest and convert those carbs into useable energy. Therefore, you should not see a spike from those cough drops.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad that the sugar alcohols won't cause a spike, but I Soum that I still have to include the carbs in my And overall daily carb counts

 

[Canadian_cousin]

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad that the sugar alcohols won't cause a spike, but I Soum that I still have to include the carbs in my And overall daily carb counts

Sorry pushed the wrong button! I do assume that I have to include the carbs in my overall daily carb count, and as you have to take several of the lozenges when you're sick, that could really add up. And that's in the sugar-free!

 

[Canadian_cousin]

When I started taking statins my hba1c went up from 48 to 54. Since coming off them due to other side effects and reducing my carbs my hba1c is now down to 36. Although my cholesterol went down from 5.4 to 3.1 I have made the decision not to take them again.

I think I have to go off of them, and carefully monitor what happens to my good cholesterol, and my blood glucose, and my persistent dawn phenomenon. Thanks for your advice, and anecdotal response.

 

[Kristin251]

Sugar alcohols do raise my levels. And make my tummy hurt so no love lost. L

 

[Canadian_cousin]

Like Mark, regular fasting is included in my weekly diet on LCHF with 36 hours once a week, it seems to be helping my DP and certainly my numbers which consistently average 4s-5s at any point in the week. One thing I continue to struggle with, is waking up, bright and alert between 5 and 6 am each morning. Not sure if that will settle down or my metabolic clock is just resting itself to the norms for my system.

Thanks for your response! Obviously I have to find out more about fasting and diabetes. It goes against what we have been told medically since the onset of my diabetes But then the Hindenburg myth of Chloresterol and animal fats causing all those problems has gone up in flames. Who can we believe about what these days? Ultimately I have to rely on my body's reactions, and I'm feeling my way through it carefully. I thank everyone for all of their excellent advice and for steering me to so many excellent connections of research.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Thanks for your response! Obviously I have to find out more about fasting and diabetes. It goes against what we have been told medically since the onset of my diabetes But then the Hindenburg myth of Chloresterol and animal fats causing all those problems has gone up in flames. Who can we believe about what these days? Ultimately I have to rely on my body's reactions, and I'm feeling my way through it carefully. I thank everyone for all of their excellent advice and for steering me to so many excellent connections of research.

The Hindenburg wasn't a myth. It went down in flames.
I certainly don't want to raise my cholesterol to high numbers, and I find animal fats are very bad for me.
Good, non saturated fats, and cholesterol, and trigs, in the 'good' range is my route.

 

[Debmcgee]

I'd say I agree with all the above but would also say have a go at further reducing your carb intake to around 30g a day to get you into proper ketosis.

My bg takes forever to do anything (except rise!!) so I'm not giving intermittent fasting a go. It's all trial and error xx


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[Indy51]

If you are still taking statins, I would definitely look into taking Co-Q10 and Vitamin K2 as statins block the pathway and deplete the body of both those essential cofactors.

 

[Canadian_cousin]

Thank you very much for your feedback! Are you suggesting that I have to get down to about 30 carbs and a strong state of ketosis to have any effect on the blood sugar? I had thought that eating within the guidelines of low-carb lifestyle (I was eating 50 carbs)was supposed to have a profound effect on my BG. I'm still new to all of this, so maybe I have a misapprehension. Do you stay in ketosis to control your BG all the time? Or are you suggesting this as a way to kick start my body? I've been focussing on adopting a new lifestyle first, before really putting the focus on losing weight, although I have been losing steadily for the last two months, but not hugely .A question for other members: do you stay in ketosis all the time to keep control of your glucose levels?

 

[Canadian_cousin]

If you are still taking statins, I would definitely look into taking Co-Q10 and Vitamin K2 as statins block the pathway and deplete the body of both those essential cofactors.

Yes,after reading about going off statins, I made both of those supplement choices, plus potassium and magnesium because I was having some muscle cramps with exercise.
I did stop taking my Crestor for three weeks, and my Bloodsugars came down a point or two, but I visited my cardiologist last week and he pitched a major hissy fit saying I was playing Russian roulette by doing this. He also was in total denial that there was any new research about Chloresterol,saturated fat's, and LCHF. He insisted that there was no real mainstream science but only soft conjecture about these new perspectives. The guidelines of the American Heart Association are written in stone on Mount Sinai for him still. As I do have established heart issues, caused by my diabetes, I am going to continue on the statins. Especially as I am eating more fats now. These are hard choices, but if I continue low-carb, I am hoping that my body changes will demonstrate that these changes are possible, and that my body is healthier!