Honey Diabetes and Heart

Klpville said:

I have just checked my BMI out of curiosity. It's 24 so I am not underweight after all

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Have you checked that your waist measurement is less than half your height?

Klpville said:

I have just checked my BMI out of curiosity. It's 24 so I am not underweight after all

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My BMI is apparently 23.5 at the moment and I have quite a bit of fat to lose.
Professor Roy Taylor of Newcastle Diet fame told me that a T2 Diabetic should aim to be the weight and waist measurement they were in their late teens.
For me that would be 11 stone 7 lbs and a waist measurement of 32". I am 6 foot tall. Waist at least 36" (not measured recently).
I currently weigh 12 stone 6 lbs so have nearly a stone to lose.

I think that you have just illustrated that your personal perception of the amount of body fat you have is potentially inaccurate and that you could probably lose at least a stone to great personal benefit.

If you have been a certain weight for a long while and always thought of yourself as skinny it can come as a shock when you discover that you are not skinny at all, but instead towards the high end of a healthy weight.

I think that you are in denial at the moment. Hopefully you will take on board that you can live comfortably on minimal carbs, and that perhaps losing a bit of weight will not do you any harm.

Klpville said:

Well, if you weigh 12 stones 6 lbs = 176 pounds and you are 6 foot tall then your MBI is 23.9, not 23.5. You can check it here: https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm Mine is the same 23.9, but I rounded it to 24 in my previous message.

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I used a different site https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-weight/bmi-calculator/ and it looks as though it rounds down. Your linked site gives me a BMI of 23.6.

Oh, and 12 stone 6 lbs is 174 lbs.
12 * 14 = 168; +6 = 174.

It looks as though you are a different body type to me. I have skinny arms and legs and tend to put weight on around the waist. I wasn't always quite like that but you tend to lose muscle from your arms and legs when you get older.

Klpville said:

Right, exactly. That's the other way around. Oops. I am just getting started on my new "journey" so carried away doing my research on how to calculate it all and stuff. But then again, in that case it's even less carbs, 5.6 only. Will that be real bad if you eat just one teaspoon of honey of 5.6 carbs once a while? You do eat carbs anyway, I haven't heard of anyone yet who manages to eat 0 (zero) carbs per month and lasts like this for years. Or... is that actually possible?

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No I do not think a teaspoon of honey sometimes will harm you. Honey is gorgeous stuff and I do believe it has health benefits it has been used as a natural healer for centuries so a teaspoon sometimes could be a good thing. Zero carbs would be practically impossible For some people it probably would be difficult to stick to very low carb for life we just have to work out what level suits us that we can cope with long term

In my opinion all these contradicting scores are because BMI is a rubbish calculator.

"
Polyphenols and heart diseases
Reactive oxygen species (ROS) are highly reactive molecules that are constantly produced by enzymatic reactions in
cells. In normal physiological conditions, ROS are produced at low levels, which are necessary for maintaining normal cell
functions, and the endogenous anti-oxidant defense systems of the body have the capacity to avert any harmful effects. However,
several established risk factors for cardiovascular disease have been linked to excessive generation of ROS, known as a state of
oxidative stress. For instance, in animal models of hiperlipidemia (Miller et al., 1998; Mugge et al., 1994), hypertension
(Morawietz et al., 2001; Zalba et al., 2000; Suzuki et al., 1995), and diabetes (Hink et al., 2001; Sano et al., 1998), elevated levels
of vascular superoxide anion production. Moreover, clinical studies have demonstrated that hypercholesterolemia and diabetes in
humans are also associated with increased vascular superoxide anion generation (Guzik et al., 2000). All these data strongly
suggest that increased oxidative stress is involved in the pathophysiology of cardiovascular disease.
Many epidemiological studies have shown that regular flavonoid intake is associated with a reduced risk of
cardiovascular diseases (Middleton et al., 2000). In the coronary heart disease, the protective effects of flavonoids include mainly
antithrombotic, antiischemic, anti-oxidant, and vasorelaxant (Jendekova et al., 2006). It is suggested that flavonoids decrease the
risk of coronary heart disease by three major actions: (A) improving coronary vasodilatation, (B) decreasing the ability of platelets
in the blood to clot and (C) preventing LDLs from oxidizing (Garc´ia and Castillo, 2008). Oxidation of low density lipoproteins is
believed to play an important role in the development of atherosclerosis (Witztum and Steinberg, 1991; Parthasarathy et al.,
1992). Oxidized low density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL cholesterol) is taken up more readily by macrophages, which leads to
the formation of foam cells and atherosclerotic plaques (Palinski et al., 1989). Mechanisms that slow or prevent this chain of
events may decrease the risk of coronary heart disease (CHD) and stroke (Catapano, 1997). Flavonoids are a group of phenolic
compounds and are known to have antioxidant properties (Kandaswani and Middleton, 1994). They have been reported to be
scavengers of free radicals, including superoxide anions (Robak and Gryglewski, 1988), singlet oxygen (Husain et al., 1987), and
lipid peroxy-radicals (Sorata et al., 1982). In addition, flavonoids have been shown to prevent LDL cholesterol oxidation and
cytotoxicity in vitro (De Whalley et al., 1990).
According to Beretta et al. (2007), the experiments with endothelial cells fortified with the isolated fraction from native
honey enriched in antioxidants, exposed to peroxyl radicals from 1,1-diphenyl-2-picrylhydrazyl (AAPH, 10 mM) and to hydrogen
peroxide (H2O2, 50-100 microM), indicated that phenolic acids and flavonoids were the main causes of the protective effect. They
suggested that, through the synergistic action of its antioxidants, honey by reducing and removing ROS, may lower the risks and
effects of acute and chronic free radical induced pathologies in vivo.
Rakha et al. (2008) showed that natural wild honey may exert its cardioprotective and therapeutic effects against
epinephrine-induced cardiac disorders and vasomotor dysfunction directly, via its very pronounced total antioxidant capacity and
its great wealth of both enzymatic and nonenzymatic antioxidants involved in cardiovascular defense mechanisms.
Nagyova et al. (2004) also demonstrated that short-term and modest supplementation with a mixture of antioxidant
nutrients improves antioxidative capacity and reduces products of lipid peroxidation in plasma. Since a more pronounced effect "

from links in message 13 above

Klpville said:

Hmmm.. perfectly possible in theory. How about for real? There are a lot of things possible theoretically but when it comes down to real life situations a lot of these theories appear to be ineligible and inapplicable. I am not an expert of course but to exclude all the carbs from your meals for good looks a bit too harsh for me. That would mean no fruits and no vegetables at all as they all contain carbs. I guess you can eat meat and fish only but don't you think you will turn into a lion or a tiger after let's say 10 years of this type of a diet?

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Not theoretical in any way carbohydrates are not essential for life fact.

Dr Snoddy said:

Some types of honey e.g. Manuka honey from New Zealand do show verifiable antibiotic type activity in laboratory tests. However, this varies from batch to batch and is not guaranteed. This is why this honey is sold as a food not a drug. There is also no guarantee of this effect if the honey is swallowed as opposed to being applied to a wound.

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In Australia this is called Medi Honey which comes in tubes and as far as I know is only sold in pharmacies. It comes from the Jelly Bush here, and according to the indigenous people has been used as medicine on wounds, sores etc since the dreamtime.

I have used it on a wound on my leg with some success, and if I remember rightly it did heal for a while. I seem to remember that it had a "External Use Only" warning on it.

Guzzler said:

In my opinion all these contradicting scores are because BMI is a rubbish calculator.

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Yes, I remember when I was younger they'd actually do fat measurements, but that stopped once they adopted this what I call "Lazy approach." BMI system. One size fits all approach.

Contralto said:

Guess what I think you will find?

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Increased insulin resistance?

Jim Lahey said:

Increased insulin resistance?

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And a lovely high BG reading....

Klpville said:

Exactly. That's why I said that I had checked it out only out of curiosity. I have never paid much attention to this hooey eyewash stuff

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Yeah, doctors, dieticians etc seem to be the only ones who have an interest in it I've found. I couldn't care less, because it's just so flawed. And at times ridiculous.

Klpville said:

What languages do you speak?

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I am learning to speak Pitjantjatjara, so I can say "I am as dry as a dead dingo's donger" like D!ck Smith says.