Honeymoon phase

[ktbubble]

Hello......

I'm new to diabetes and to the forum. I was diagnosed with T1 a few weeks ago and at the time had a raging tooth abscess this made my sugars super high. However once the antibiotics did their job, my sugars significantly lowered and my diabetic nurse reassured me I am in the honeymoon phase.( I was briefly hopeful, my diagnosis was wrong) I'm finding this a good and a bad thing. On the plus side not needing to inject with every meal BUT different days cause me to have fluctuating sugars. This is so frustrating!!!!! Wanted to know others experiences with this phase?

 

[cezli84]

Hey. I was diagnosed 9 months ago and am still in my honeymoon phase!! It is a pain and with any infection, sugars rocket!! I have recently joined here for a second time as i am finding it really hard lately. The people here are great and lovely and u will be looked after. Anything u need to know, they will gladly educate u. Btw, honeymoon periods can last months or years, everyone is different. Hope you are ok and good luck xxx

 

[urbanracer]

Welcome to the forums.

Your experiences are fairly commonplace. For some people the honeymoon phase will last weeks or months. My endo' thinks i'm still honeymooning after 16 months. I've read within these pages that it can go on for years if you're lucky.

 

[ArtemisBow]

Mine is still going 2 and a bit years after diagnosis. It's a bit of a mixed blessing to be honest. On the plus side able to have smaller injections, but in practice it isn't consistent, which means unexpected highs & hypos sometimes. My only advice is to document all that you can - you won't be able to predict things perfectly but at least you might be able to get some patterns over time.

 

[MyNameIsAlex]

I would like to learn more about the honeymoon phase. I've been a type 1 diabetic since February 2015,I've never taken insulin shots but my doctor told me that soon I'll start my insulin treatment. So, If I will start this treatment now, how long it will take until I'll ''enter'' in this phase? How long it will last?

 

[cezli84]

I would like to learn more about the honeymoon phase. I've been a type 1 diabetic since February 2015,I've never taken insulin shots but my doctor told me that soon I'll start my insulin treatment. So, If I will start this treatment now, how long it will take until I'll ''enter'' in this phase? How long it will last?

Can i ask, r u just on metformin?? I thought t1's were always on insulin. I have been T1 for 9 months and am at the end of my honeymoon period. Ive met ppl that have been in theirs for 2 years and as little as 1 month, everyone is different. The man made insulin in theory kick starts the pancreas an thats why u get the hm period, so i been told. Hope u get on ok xx

 

[TorqPenderloin]

I would like to learn more about the honeymoon phase. I've been a type 1 diabetic since February 2015,I've never taken insulin shots but my doctor told me that soon I'll start my insulin treatment. So, If I will start this treatment now, how long it will take until I'll ''enter'' in this phase? How long it will last?

Well, you're in the honeymoon phase now based on what you just mentioned.

The honeymoon phase is basically the period of time after your diagnosis where your pancreas still producing some insulin. The honeymoon phase would end when your pancreas stops producing insulin altogether (or very close).

As mentioned, it can sometimes last weeks, months, or years. In younger people, it's usually much shorter (but not always). In older people (18+) it can last longer (again, not always).

Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing. Remember, it's an auto-immune disease and it's a matter of how fast your body decides to kill off your pancreas' beta cells.

 

[MyNameIsAlex]

Well, you're in the honeymoon phase now based on what you just mentioned.

The honeymoon phase is basically the period of time after your diagnosis where your pancreas still producing some insulin. The honeymoon phase would end when your pancreas stops producing insulin altogether (or very close).

As mentioned, it can sometimes last weeks, months, or years. In younger people, it's usually much shorter (but not always). In older people (18+) it can last longer (again, not always).

Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing. Remember, it's an auto-immune disease and it's a matter of how fast your body decides to kill off your pancreas' beta cells.

I've read something about honeymoon phase and if I remember correctly, this phase will start after you will start the insulin treatment. I didn't start the insulin treatment and to respond to cezli's question: Yes, I am on metformin, 1 pill/day (1/2 after breakfast and 1/2 after dinner)

 

[cezli84]

I was jus wonderin as when i was first diagnosed, i was in the grey area but they started me on insulin to be on the safe side incase i was actually T1, which after the hba1c test confirmed i am.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

I've read something about honeymoon phase and if I remember correctly, this phase will start after you will start the insulin treatment. I didn't start the insulin treatment and to respond to cezli's question: Yes, I am on metformin, 1 pill/day (1/2 after breakfast and 1/2 after dinner)

Well, "Honeymoon phase" isn't a scientific term so I suppose you can define it however you want.

However, for most people, it has nothing to do with whether or not you need insulin. It begins when your body first begins to kill off your pancreas beta cells and ends when they're basically all killed off. Obviously, there is a certain point within that period when you will begin to need insulin, but that point differs for each person.

 

[MyNameIsAlex]

When I was diagnosed, my HbA1c was 7.8 %. My last HbA1c was 5.1 % (november 2015)

 

[cezli84]

My first one was 10.5 then down to 6.6, it will no doubt be back up after this tho. Well done for 5.1%

 

[MyNameIsAlex]

Well, "Honeymoon phase" isn't a scientific term so I suppose you can define it however you want.

However, for most people, it has nothing to do with whether or not you need insulin. It begins when your body first begins to kill off your pancreas beta cells and ends when they're basically all killed off. Obviously, there is a certain point within that period when you will begin to need insulin, but that point differs for each person.

So, I just wait until my cells will be all killed and when I will be ''officially'' a diabetic and I'll start the insulin treatment. All I want is my pancreas to produce enough insulin one more year. But I think I am asking too much.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

I was jus wonderin as when i was first diagnosed, i was in the grey area but they started me on insulin to be on the safe side incase i was actually T1, which after the hba1c test confirmed i am.

Here's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth (not much), but decide for yourself what you want to believe.

1.) "Type 1.5/LADA" is a stupid term- there's no clinical set of standards to diagnose "Type 1.5" which makes the diagnosis entirely subjective. Unfortunately, this often results in "Diabetes limbo" where patients aren't treated as if they have type 1, and if they're treated as if they have type 2 the medication will eventually become ineffective (often Metformin and Glicazide).

2.) In my opinion, there is no "Grey area." You either test positive for GAD 65 antibodies, or you don't. You either have a C-peptide level below normal, or you don't. An A1c test can't confirm what type of diabetes you have just like a normal A1c result doesn't mean you no longer have diabetes...it only means you're well-regulated.

My background:
February 2015: I had an annual check-up for my health insurance (I'm in the US) that said my fasting glucose was 140 mg/dl (7.8mmol/L). The test was poorly executed (they also said I had 30% body fat when it's really around 12%) so I didn't think anything of it.

September 2015: I end up in the emergency room with a blood sugar level higher than 28mmol/L and probably closer to 33mmol/L. My a1c was 13.2% at the time. That same week I start basal insulin (Levemir), two weeks later I start bolus insulin (Novolog/Novorapid), and three weeks later I'm using a Dexcom CGM.

December 2015: After I finally know what's going on, I drop my a1c down to 6.0%.

February 2016: Fast forward to a year after the first sign I had diabetes and I still produce some natural insulin. Under perfect conditions, I can still keep my blood sugar regulated (with the exception of dawn phenomenon) without any artificial insulin. However, that means <30g of carbs, <200g protein, lifting weights for 1+ hrs, and running 5+ miles each day. Even then, there's a 50% chance I'll need to bolus at some people during the day.


Final thoughts: Not once has anyone ever suggested that I have "Type 1.5/LADA." However, by some people's definition, that's exactly what I have. 99% of the time I need artificial insulin to make it through the day. Sometimes I need as much as 30 units/day and then there are those rare occasions when I might need less than 5.

Aside from saving money, I can't see why a doctor would ever keep insulin from someone with an auto-immune form of diabetes. Best case, you don't need it and it sits in the fridge. Worst case, you do need it and wind up with DKA.

 

[MyNameIsAlex]

First of all, what does bolus mean? Second, let me see if I understand: Are you saying that 99% of the time you need artificial insulin to make it through the day. What does mean that 1 %? There are some days when you don't need to administrate your insulin?

<30g of carbs

This is the total quantity of carbs are you eating in a whole day?

 

[cezli84]

Here's my opinion. Take it for what it's worth (not much), but decide for yourself what you want to believe.

1.) "Type 1.5/LADA" is a stupid term- there's no clinical set of standards to diagnose "Type 1.5" which makes the diagnosis entirely subjective. Unfortunately, this often results in "Diabetes limbo" where patients aren't treated as if they have type 1, and if they're treated as if they have type 2 the medication will eventually become ineffective (often Metformin and Glicazide).

2.) In my opinion, there is no "Grey area." You either test positive for GAD 65 antibodies, or you don't. You either have a C-peptide level below normal, or you don't. An A1c test can't confirm what type of diabetes you have just like a normal A1c result doesn't mean you no longer have diabetes...it only means you're well-regulated.

My background:
February 2015: I had an annual check-up for my health insurance (I'm in the US) that said my fasting glucose was 140 mg/dl (7.8mmol/L). The test was poorly executed (they also said I had 30% body fat when it's really around 12%) so I didn't think anything of it.

September 2015: I end up in the emergency room with a blood sugar level higher than 28mmol/L and probably closer to 33mmol/L. My a1c was 13.2% at the time. That same week I start basal insulin (Levemir), two weeks later I start bolus insulin (Novolog/Novorapid), and three weeks later I'm using a Dexcom CGM.

December 2015: After I finally know what's going on, I drop my a1c down to 6.0%.

February 2016: Fast forward to a year after the first sign I had diabetes and I still produce some natural insulin. Under perfect conditions, I can still keep my blood sugar regulated (with the exception of dawn phenomenon) without any artificial insulin. However, that means <30g of carbs, <200g protein, lifting weights for 1+ hrs, and running 5+ miles each day. Even then, there's a 50% chance I'll need to bolus at some people during the day.


Final thoughts: Not once has anyone ever suggested that I have "Type 1.5/LADA." However, by some people's definition, that's exactly what I have. 99% of the time I need artificial insulin to make it through the day. Sometimes I need as much as 30 units/day and then there are those rare occasions when I might need less than 5.

Aside from saving money, I can't see why a doctor would ever keep insulin from someone with an auto-immune form of diabetes. Best case, you don't need it and it sits in the fridge. Worst case, you do need it and wind up with DKA.

Erm, jus to clarify; firstly, my dsn said i was in the "grey" area as i was too young to get type 2 an too old to get type 1 in theory before my results came back and secondly, I never mentioned type 1.5, i know im t1 as the anti bodies test was clear on that as well as the a1c as was told to me by my dsn thats why i was started on insulin as the metformin didnt help me one bit. I need a lot more insulin over the last month than ive ever needed since my diagnosis as my pancreas is shuttin down.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

First of all, what does bolus mean? Second, let me see if I understand: Are you saying that 99% of the time you need artificial insulin to make it through the day. What does mean that 1 %? There are some days when you don't need to administrate your insulin?

This is the total quantity of carbs are you eating in a whole day?

Bolus insulin is fast-acting. It would generally be taken just before eating a meal to keep your blood sugar from rising as a result of eating carbs. This helps to avoid sharp increases in your blood glucose.

In contrast, basal insulin is slow acting insulin. It is absorbed over a period of about a day so there’s always some insulin in your system at all times. This helps to avoid gradual increases in your blood glucose.

Yes, I am saying that 99% of the time I need artificial insulin to make it through the day.

The 1% means that there are very rare circumstances that I don’t need to take artificial insulin, but I need to exercise more than 2 hours per day and limit my carbohydrate intake to almost zero. My pancreas still produces some insulin, but not enough to make it through a normal day.

Yes, on a typical day I usually eat between 30-50g of carbs. I follow what is called the “Cyclical Keto Diet.” I eat about 2800 calories in a normal day. <200 of that comes from carbs, about 800-1400 from protein, and about 1400 comes from fat. My protein intake fluctuates depending on whether or not I want to gain weight.

Erm, jus to clarify; firstly, my dsn said i was in the "grey" area as i was too young to get type 2 an too old to get type 1 in theory before my results came back and secondly, I never mentioned type 1.5, i know im t1 as the anti bodies test was clear on that as well as the a1c as was told to me by my dsn thats why i was started on insulin as the metformin didnt help me one bit. I need a lot more insulin over the last month than ive ever needed since my diagnosis as my pancreas is shuttin down.

Forgive me, I should have been more specific. My comments weren’t directed at you in any way. I was speaking to some of the low-grade doctors that poorly and improperly diagnose diabetes. In fact, your DSN sounds like a perfect example. If he or she really said those things then they’re an idiot. No patient deserves to be told that their diabetes is “In the grey area” or that they’re “Too young to get type 2 and too old to get type 1.” Those statements are not only untrue, but they serve no medical purpose. That’s just the DSN’s excuse for failing to properly diagnose you.

EDIT- I was speaking to my belief that people deserve a definitive diagnosis and there are a lot of false stereotypes when it comes to diabetes. There are children with type 2 diabetes just like there are marathon runners with type 2 diabetes. You can get type 1 diabetes at 70 years old and there are people plenty of overweight type 1 diabetes. Basically, you can't look at someone and tell what type of diabetes they have.

 

[cezli84]

Bolus insulin is fast-acting. It would generally be taken just before eating a meal to keep your blood sugar from rising as a result of eating carbs. This helps to avoid sharp increases in your blood glucose.

In contrast, basal insulin is slow acting insulin. It is absorbed over a period of about a day so there’s always some insulin in your system at all times. This helps to avoid gradual increases in your blood glucose.

Yes, I am saying that 99% of the time I need artificial insulin to make it through the day.

The 1% means that there are very rare circumstances that I don’t need to take artificial insulin, but I need to exercise more than 2 hours per day and limit my carbohydrate intake to almost zero. My pancreas still produces some insulin, but not enough to make it through a normal day.

Yes, on a typical day I usually eat between 30-50g of carbs. I follow what is called the “Cyclical Keto Diet.” I eat about 2800 calories in a normal day. <200 of that comes from carbs, about 800-1400 from protein, and about 1400 comes from fat. My protein intake fluctuates depending on whether or not I want to gain weight.




Forgive me, I should have been more specific. My comments weren’t directed at you in any way. I was speaking to some of the low-grade doctors that poorly and improperly diagnose diabetes. In fact, your DSN sounds like a perfect example. If he or she really said those things then they’re an idiot. No patient deserves to be told that their diabetes is “In the grey area” or that they’re “Too young to get type 2 and too old to get type 1.” Those statements are not only untrue, but they serve no medical purpose. That’s just the DSN’s excuse for failing to properly diagnose you.

EDIT- I was speaking to my belief that people deserve a definitive diagnosis and there are a lot of false stereotypes when it comes to diabetes. There are children with type 2 diabetes just like there are marathon runners with type 2 diabetes. You can get type 1 diabetes at 70 years old and there are people plenty of overweight type 1 diabetes. Basically, you can't look at someone and tell what type of diabetes they have.

No, forgive me, i didnt mean to come across aggressive or defensive, was jus sayin thats wot i was told. I totally get what your saying.

 

[LucySW]

Mine is still going 2 and a bit years after diagnosis. It's a bit of a mixed blessing to be honest. On the plus side able to have smaller injections, but in practice it isn't consistent, which means unexpected highs & hypos sometimes. My only advice is to document all that you can - you won't be able to predict things perfectly but at least you might be able to get some patterns over time.

Can I back this up. Documenting what you eat, BGs and all insulin is the ONLY way you will see any pattern that makes sense.

Maybe have a look over on the LADA/1.5 forum too. Lots of us still in honeymoon. Lots of us low carbing too, to prolong it.

 

[hansolo]

Interesting debate. Especially interested to see how TorqPenderloin can manage his T1 with diet and exercise alone. Are you saying you manage the 'spike' side of it but take basal to manage the overall level/background? I can't imagine what your exercise regime is like but it would account for a 12% body fat reading!
I barely have time to manage properly carb counting and recording my figures, let alone putting in the time to manage with exercise.
My background is also late-in-life T1. I'm fairly fit (only left the forces last year after 18 yrs), reasonable diet but started with high blood pressure then high cholesterol and finally became incredibly thirsty etc and boom. Hba1c at diagnosis 11.7 and 3 months later 6.8, so pretty pleased though I think I've let it slip a bit. The 6.8 came with the presence of a few hypos here and there so I doubt I could hit 5.1 without the same. I was told to not be so hard on myself and learn to manage it tightly in a safer range, then bring it down. Just a bit concerned that I will start to cause longer term damage by not having it between 5-8. I certainly always have spikes up to and above 13 if I test after 2 hrs from food but then the resting point (4hrs after food) is mostly down at where it started, so still a little confused....!