How do I do low protein plus low carb diet?

[LittleGreyCat]

@Oldvatr
I haven't dug further into the references yet (may not be able to) but in the article there isn't any reference to the baseline water consumption nor the amount by which it was increased.

Edit: "low and high hydration regimen of 0.5 and 4 mL of oral water per kg body
weight/30 min".
I haven't quite got my head around it, but this looks as though the water intake was increased by 8 times, which seems an abnormal approach.

Hmmm....70 kg goes from 45 mL of water in 30 minutes to 280 mL of water in 30 minutes.
High consumption is therefore 560 mL (about a pint) per hour.
Still trying to get to the original article to find out how many hours they were drinking a pint an hour.

 

[JohnEGreen]

Actually, those of us that might suffer CKD might benefit from not just lowering protein, but also avoiding phosphorus from our diet.

Modern processed foods have phosphorus compounds added as flavour enhancers, preservatives and thickening agents. One major contributor that we may not know about is fizzy drinks. Many soda drinks used phosphoric acid, which not only rots teeth and guts but also stays in the body and builds up if the kidneys are underperforming.

From what I have seen, it is meat that is the main problem since it is packed full of creatine which is superb for building muscles, but the excess becomes creatinine which messes up the GFR. So reducing meat, especially red meat, and also apparently fish, in the week before a GFR test might help keep the surgeons at bay. Some vegetables also contribute to creatinine, so it seems Cruciferae such as cabbage, Brussel sprouts etc (the vegs with phosphorus in them) could also go onto the naughty step for that week (or permanently, as some will say)
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...xpert-answers/food-and-nutrition/faq-20058408

Chicken and red meat have approximately equal amounts of creatine.

"Chicken is a complete protein source that contains all 22 amino acids your body requires to build protein-based structures such as muscle, hair, skin and other connective tissues. One non-essential amino acid, called creatine, is used in your muscles to produce energy for stronger contractions. The amount of creatine in chicken is similar to that in other meats."
"
Main Sources of Creatine
All animal-based protein sources contain some creatine, although the best sources are muscle tissue and organ meats, where the majority of creatine resides. As such, the flesh and organs of cows, pigs, lamb, fish and poultry, including chicken, are rich sources of natural creatine. Wild game is considered the best source of creatine, but lean red meat, chicken breast and fish, especially salmon and tuna, are also very good sources, according to “Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance.” Plant-based, high-protein foods, such as tofu, beans and nuts, contain very little or no creatine."

" tofu, beans and nuts, contain very little or no creatine."

I'm not too keen on Tofu beans tend to be high in carbs and I can't chew nuts .

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/creatine-chicken-1136.html

 

[Oldvatr]

@Oldvatr
I haven't dug further into the references yet (may not be able to) but in the article there isn't any reference to the baseline water consumption nor the amount by which it was increased.

Edit: "low and high hydration regimen of 0.5 and 4 mL of oral water per kg body
weight/30 min".
I haven't quite got my head around it, but this looks as though the water intake was increased by 8 times, which seems an abnormal approach.

Hmmm....70 kg goes from 45 mL of water in 30 minutes to 280 mL of water in 30 minutes.
High consumption is therefore 560 mL (about a pint) per hour.
Still trying to get to the original article to find out how many hours they were drinking a pint an hour.

Happy reading
https://www.kidney-international.org/article/S0085-2538(15)47920-7/fulltext

 

[LittleGreyCat]

https://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/19/6/1041
quotes
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11473658/
(This was derailed by a short term issue with Cloudflare.)

Methods: Renal function was studied under fasting conditions (baseline) and after a meat meal (2 g of protein/kg body weight) in 12 healthy adults on a low and high hydration regimen of 0.5 and 4 mL of oral water per kg body weight/30 min, respectively.

Results: Urine flow, urinary and plasma Na, K, urea, and osmolality were stably different on low and high hydration regimens. At baseline, there were significant or borderline significant correlations of plasma and urine osmolality with glomerular filtration rate (GFR; inulin clearance) only in the low hydration regimen. GFR was higher in the low than the high hydration regimen at all time points. The difference was significant at baseline (19.2%) and at 90 to 180 minutes after the meal (14.4%). After the meal, GFR increased significantly over baseline values only in the high hydration regimen (30.0% at peak time). Urinary excretion of Na, urea, and osmoles was lower in the low than the high hydration regimen at all time points: The difference was significant for Na (at baseline) and osmoles (all time points). Urinary K excretion was not different in the two regimens. After the meal, there were significant increases in urinary excretion of Na (in the low hydration regimen) and urea (90 to 180 min after the meal).

Conclusions: In fasting adults, high hydration lowered GFR and increased natriuresis. After a meat meal, GFR increased only in the high hydration regimen and natriuresis only in the low hydration regimen. Hydration affects GFR and natriuresis under fasting conditions and after a meat meal.

Interesting (I think).
Fasting, extra water seems counter productive but helps GFR after a meal.
Still trying to get my head round it.

 

[Oldvatr]

Chicken and red meat have approximately equal amounts of creatine.

"Chicken is a complete protein source that contains all 22 amino acids your body requires to build protein-based structures such as muscle, hair, skin and other connective tissues. One non-essential amino acid, called creatine, is used in your muscles to produce energy for stronger contractions. The amount of creatine in chicken is similar to that in other meats."
"
Main Sources of Creatine
All animal-based protein sources contain some creatine, although the best sources are muscle tissue and organ meats, where the majority of creatine resides. As such, the flesh and organs of cows, pigs, lamb, fish and poultry, including chicken, are rich sources of natural creatine. Wild game is considered the best source of creatine, but lean red meat, chicken breast and fish, especially salmon and tuna, are also very good sources, according to “Exercise Physiology: Energy, Nutrition, and Human Performance.” Plant-based, high-protein foods, such as tofu, beans and nuts, contain very little or no creatine."

" tofu, beans and nuts, contain very little or no creatine."

I'm not too keen on Tofu beans tend to be high in carbs and I can't chew nuts .

https://healthyeating.sfgate.com/creatine-chicken-1136.html

chicken contains about half the amount of creatine compared to beef or pork. Fish contains even less. However, we ourselves synthesise our own creatine from amino acids in our diet, and are not reliant on having it on a plate as it were. But creatinine indicates an unused excess of creatine in our diet. So a reduction of meat would seem to be a direct way of making the eGFR better. And exercising to burn up the creatine in our muscles too. So, jog to the blood test centre?

 

[JohnEGreen]

"chicken contains about half the amount of creatine compared to beef"
Though I did say proximately did not mean to intimate that they where exactly the same. but will concede your point
Though Salmon has the same as beef. and pork is somewhere between chicken and beef. and lamb about the same as chicken and of course depends on how much of each is eaten..And I note that herring is particularly high.

Food Source Creatine (Amount/100g of food)
1 Herring Fillet (raw and dried) 1.1g
2 Beef patties (raw) 0.9g
3 Herring 0.9g
4 Beef steak gravy (juice cooked from meat) 0.9g
5 Salmon 0.9g
6 Beefburger 0.9g
7 Pork 0.7g
8 Black pudding (blood sausage) 0.6g
9 Dry cured ham 0.6g
10 Lamb, top round 0.5g
11 Chicken breast 0.4g
12 Rabbit meat 0.4g
13 Tuna 0.4g
14 Cod 0.3g
15 Beef cattle heart 0.3g
16 Ox heart 0.3g
17 Beef cattle cheek 0.3g
18 Falun sausage 0.3g
19 Hot dogs 0.2g
20 Mortadella 0.2g
21 Sausage 0.2g
22 Fish sauce 0.2g

https://fitbod.me/blog/natural-food-sources-creatine/

 

[Oldvatr]

"chicken contains about half the amount of creatine compared to beef"
Though I did say proximately did not mean to intimate that they where exactly the same. but will concede your point
Though Salmon has the same as beef. and pork is somewhere between chicken and beef. and lamb about the same as chicken and of course depends on how much of each is eaten..And I note that herring is particularly high.

Food Source Creatine (Amount/100g of food)
1 Herring Fillet (raw and dried) 1.1g
2 Beef patties (raw) 0.9g
3 Herring 0.9g
4 Beef steak gravy (juice cooked from meat) 0.9g
5 Salmon 0.9g
6 Beefburger 0.9g
7 Pork 0.7g
8 Black pudding (blood sausage) 0.6g
9 Dry cured ham 0.6g
10 Lamb, top round 0.5g
11 Chicken breast 0.4g
12 Rabbit meat 0.4g
13 Tuna 0.4g
14 Cod 0.3g
15 Beef cattle heart 0.3g
16 Ox heart 0.3g
17 Beef cattle cheek 0.3g
18 Falun sausage 0.3g
19 Hot dogs 0.2g
20 Mortadella 0.2g
21 Sausage 0.2g
22 Fish sauce 0.2g

https://fitbod.me/blog/natural-food-sources-creatine/

snap! we found the same source! Wot abaht me kippers?

Not sure why the kidney repair websites say to drop red meat though. Maybe the muscle tissue that contains the creatine is more plentiful?

 

[JohnEGreen]

I don't know maybe they just got a down on good old beef steaks. Though some cuts of beef seem to be higher in creatine than others.

Oh no!! I am not going to give up me kippers for breakfast and that's that. if they were good enough for Ace they are good enough for me.

 

[HurricaneHippo]

may this help you
Let’s get started by understanding what diabetes actually is? Glucose or Blood Glucose is a primary source of energy that is utilized by the cells. For Glucose to travel from blood to cells our body needs insulin. Insulin is produced from Pancreas. But sometimes the body isn’t able to produce Insulin as a result of which the Glucose flows through blood in excessive amounts. It is the increase of this Blood Glucose also known as Blood Sugar which causes diabetes.
diabetes types symptoms treatment
What are the different types of Diabetes?

Thanks, was this in reply to my message?

 

[HurricaneHippo]

"chicken contains about half the amount of creatine compared to beef"
Though I did say proximately did not mean to intimate that they where exactly the same. but will concede your point
Though Salmon has the same as beef. and pork is somewhere between chicken and beef. and lamb about the same as chicken and of course depends on how much of each is eaten..And I note that herring is particularly high.

Food Source Creatine (Amount/100g of food)
1 Herring Fillet (raw and dried) 1.1g
2 Beef patties (raw) 0.9g
3 Herring 0.9g
4 Beef steak gravy (juice cooked from meat) 0.9g
5 Salmon 0.9g
6 Beefburger 0.9g
7 Pork 0.7g
8 Black pudding (blood sausage) 0.6g
9 Dry cured ham 0.6g
10 Lamb, top round 0.5g
11 Chicken breast 0.4g
12 Rabbit meat 0.4g
13 Tuna 0.4g
14 Cod 0.3g
15 Beef cattle heart 0.3g
16 Ox heart 0.3g
17 Beef cattle cheek 0.3g
18 Falun sausage 0.3g
19 Hot dogs 0.2g
20 Mortadella 0.2g
21 Sausage 0.2g
22 Fish sauce 0.2g

https://fitbod.me/blog/natural-food-sources-creatine/

Thank you for sharing, really interesting and useful to know