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How do you know you are not diabetes anymore

B

biren1973

Well-Known Member
Messages
119
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi

I was recently (1 month back) diagnosed type2 diabetes and was prescribed 2 metaformin every day. But I controlled my diet with low carbohydrate and changed life style with exercise. I used to check my sugar everyday and I can see the results now. It dropped from 7.6to 4.5 on fasting morning time. But even during day even after food it never crossed to 6.5. I also reduced my metaformin to one table even without asking doctors permission. Now even with one tablet for past 3 days , the sugar level doesn't change.

So my question is how do you know you reversed your diabetes? What parameters will suggest you are not diabetes? What should you do to confirm you are diabetes free?

Please suggest and advise.

Regards
 
If you can eat the recommended amount of carbohydrate every day (around 250 - 300 gms) without a BG spike, and if BG returns to normal quickly, and if your insulin production and your insulin resistance are in the normal range (insulin production and insulin resistance can be measured), then you might be able to say you've reversed the disease.
 
Reversal vs remission.

Personally, I'm aiming to push my T2 into remission, and my DN says that she will consider that accomplished from a medical point of view when I've had 2 HbA1c's come back within the normal range.

I agree with @DavidGrahamJones that a "reversal" is the complete absence of insulin resistance no matter what you eat. I'm no expert but I'm not sure that's a possibility? But even this potential state won't make you carb-proof - no-one is.

I don't imagine I'll ever try to eat carbs again. Firstly, it's fairly clear they're what got me here in the first place. But, also, why would I want to? I'll probably stop counting them at some point, but (now the craving stage has passed) I'm feeling so much happier and healthier, eating much better food but far less of it.

I think remission is the more reasonable goal to aim for - and congratulations, you've done marvellously!
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
If you can eat the recommended amount of carbohydrate every day (around 250 - 300 gms) without a BG spike, and if BG returns to normal quickly, and if your insulin production and your insulin resistance are in the normal range (insulin production and insulin resistance can be measured), then you might be able to say you've reversed the disease.
Click to expand...

I m currently eating around 100 grams of carbohydrates. So if I continue to eat less than 100grams a day I believe sugar will be at normal level. My another question is can I live with it without taking any medication?
 
Like @SockFiddler I am happy to control my diabetes for life by eating few carbs, I can do this eating as much protein and fat as I wish. (some people have to limit protein) I am now getting normal BG levels while eating all the nicest food.

It seems that "reversal" need a weight reduction to about 85% of your weight at the time you got Type2 - BMI does not seem to come into it. It looks like everyone has a "personal fat limit" and when you have more fat in your body this, Type2 starts to build up, and when you have less you reverse Type2.

Clearly, no one with insulin resistance (everyone with true Type2) can lose weight without reducing carbs to below out "personal carb level". This can be done by "low carb", "intermittent fasting" or "very low calorie diet" but a "low-fat balanced diet" is unlickly to work for us.
 
This is my personal definition - how I would know that I wasn't diabetic any more - if I could eat a whole bag of doughnuts washed down with a bottle of lucozade and have my BG remain in the 5s for the next three hours. Its never going to happen.

I do consider myself to be 'in remission' - but I need to watch my carb intake at all times to remain 'in remission'.
 
Chook said:
This is my personal definition - how I would know that I wasn't diabetic any more - if I could eat a whole bag of doughnuts washed down with a bottle of lucozade and have my BG remain in the 5s for the next three hours. Its never going to happen.
Click to expand...

That's being dead not none diabetic! No one can eat that without their BG going high, but a none diabetic will have BG back to normal in under 2 hours.
 
LOL - Thats what I said - if, by the end of the three hours, my BG was back to normal (after eating a bag of doughnuts and a lucozade) then I'd consider that I wasn't diabetic any more.
 
The way I see it is that although I believe I have reversed my T2, as defined by Prof Talor et al of Newcastle diet fame, it still lurks in the background. I don't see myself as non-diabetic even though I have non-diabetic blood glucose levels.

I tried testing high carb foods, a challenge where I ate vast quantities of sugary confections and pasta, with no diabetic blood glucose response. I did gain weight though, and believe in my case this is what will be the danger 'tipping point' for me to once again have diabetes level blood glucose.

Basically I am saying it is great to be seeing lower blood glucose levels but be aware it might not be permanent, depending on what I choose to eat long term.
 
One way to test it out is to take an oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) and see what happens.

You can do one of these at home if you wish

You eat over 150g of carbs for 3 days.
Then you fast overnight for at least 12 hours
Then you test to get your baseline
Then you drink 410ml of the original Lucozade (the 70Kcal per 100ml type). Must be drunk in 5 minutes
Then you sit quietly (no food, no water, no smoking, no exercise) for 2 hours
You test again after 1 hour and again after 2 hours (and as often as you like within that period)

People without diabetes
  • Fasting value (before test): under 6 mmol/L
  • At 2 hours: under 7.8 mmol/L
People with impaired glucose tolerance (IGT)
  • Fasting value (before test): 6.0 to 7.0 mmol/L
  • At 2 hours: 7.9 to 11.0 mmol/L
Diabetic levels
  • Fasting value (before test): over 7.0 mmol/L
  • At 2 hours: over 11.0 mmol/L
 
Chook said:
LOL - Thats what I said - if, by the end of the three hours, my BG was back to normal (after eating a bag of doughnuts and a lucozade) then I'd consider that I wasn't diabetic any more.
Click to expand...

You said "remain in the 5s for the next three hours"
 
Hi @biren1973 I have a friendly different view to those that are just as valid beforehand. The current guidelines of circa 50-55% carbohydrates in meals is just a finger in the air arbitrary figure. Before the low fat mantra came in western (and other societies) were much healthier, I have not been able to find 1 example of where the change to high carb in since the late 70's has improved the health outcomes of any nation.

Putting a bit more meat on the bone of my perspective, a standard well known burger chains, cheese burger meal, with fries and soft drink will push blood sugars for anyone past "normal" levels, I don't think this type of eating is "normal" or inspiring. I think the last 45 years "normal" is abnormal and dangerous.

I would suggest you don't worry about being labelled non-diabetic as there are health check benefits to this (this is not an abuse, as it is cheaper for you to get the checks and stay complication free). The staples of the "normal" way of eating, bread, rice, potatoes and pasta are just another food choice that we know for example in the USA has 50% of the population facing abnormal blood glucose levels.
 
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Thanks guys for all your valuable responses. My main query is can a diabetes live without taking any medication by controlling diet and exercise and keeping bg at normal level?
I don't like medication because I personally believe all these medicine are having lot more side effects. So controlling bg naturally rather than medication would be a wise thing to do. So has anyone controlling diabetes with out medication?
 
biren1973 said:
Thanks guys for all your valuable responses. My main query is can a diabetes live without taking any medication by controlling diet and exercise and keeping bg at normal level?
I don't like medication because I personally believe all these medicine are having lot more side effects. So controlling bg naturally rather than medication would be a wise thing to do. So has anyone controlling diabetes with out medication?
Click to expand...
the answer to that is "Yes. Many of us can and do manage without medication".
 
biren1973 said:
My another question is can I live with it without taking any medication?
Click to expand...

Only you can answer that. I knew I was able to stop taking Gliclazide and Januvia because my BG was going so low, confirmed by an HbA1c.

As for Metformin, I still take it, I could try stopping but I'm not inclined to "upset the apple cart" as they say. I'm OK for the time being, trying to find out why I can't lose weight with severe calorie restriction.
 
DavidGrahamJones said:
Only you can answer that. I knew I was able to stop taking Gliclazide and Januvia because my BG was going so low, confirmed by an HbA1c.

As for Metformin, I still take it, I could try stopping but I'm not inclined to "upset the apple cart" as they say. I'm OK for the time being, trying to find out why I can't lose weight with severe calorie restriction.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your reply. I started losing weight after diet. What's this to do with medication. Do you mean you gain weight because of metaformin?
 
biren1973 said:
Thanks guys for all your valuable responses. My main query is can a diabetes live without taking any medication by controlling diet and exercise and keeping bg at normal level?
I don't like medication because I personally believe all these medicine are having lot more side effects. So controlling bg naturally rather than medication would be a wise thing to do. So has anyone controlling diabetes with out medication?
Click to expand...
Absolutely, but be wary of diabetes, it is like one of those bad guys in a Bond film that refuses to die. Some long term members on this site have warned about reversing the diabetes reversal by slipping back to previous eating regimes. I am with you on your medication point, as I live with a health professional who has educated me, so I think medication should be as short term as possible unless there is no alternative.
 
biren1973 said:
Thanks guys for all your valuable responses. My main query is can a diabetes live without taking any medication by controlling diet and exercise and keeping bg at normal level?
I don't like medication because I personally believe all these medicine are having lot more side effects. So controlling bg naturally rather than medication would be a wise thing to do. So has anyone controlling diabetes with out medication?
Click to expand...

The answer is yes, they can. There are many off us on here doing just that (in control, low BS levels, good HbA1c results and no meds) However, none of us knows how long that will last, and it does require dietary control.
 
I think it would be best to keep in mind that remission can be transitory and unfortunately cannot be considered to always be indefinite.
 
Chook said:
This is my personal definition - how I would know that I wasn't diabetic any more - if I could eat a whole bag of doughnuts washed down with a bottle of lucozade and have my BG remain in the 5s for the next three hours. Its never going to happen.
Click to expand...

To be honest I'm pretty sure that even a non diabetic would be unable to stay in the 5's after eating that lot.. you could experiment on someone and let us know.. Hubby doesn't like doughnuts or lucozade so I can't volunteer him.. sorry.
 
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