How Does This Kind Of Behaviour Affect The Low Carb Movement?

Robinredbreast · Aug 20, 2018

Scott-C said:
Noakes did respond, and he not only didn't admonish the guy, he actually made it worse by having a go at people like me who dare to eat more than 50g a day.

I sometimes go low carbish, many times not, but I think what extreme low carbers fail to understand is just how condescending and patronising they sound, as if they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Noakes' response shows that in spades.

Look at his post at 10:57 - "crucial to minimise need for insulin injections - limit carbs to 25 -50g per day maximum".

What complete and utter guff. That's him basically saying that the child wouldn't need to have hypo treatment if only he followed a lc path.

When someone uses words like "crucial", they've lost the argument. It's not "crucial", it's an "option".

His response to Georgina Lloyd is just plain insulting, tells her to go off and read Bernstein, like she is some small uneducated child. That would be the Bernstein who proudly boasts that he hasn't eaten fruit in decades, and advises to scrape tomato sauce off the fish course.

Here's the thread for anyone wanting to see an extremist low carber digging a hole and alienating people:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfTimNoakes/status/1030755651356635138

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Hi @Scott-C , you have raised some very good points. I have just read the above 'twitter link' and it certainly has got people's backs up !
I normally have a small yogurt for breakfast or a piece of fruit, both under 10 carbs. A few years ago, I tried scrambled eggs and 1 piece of bacon ( these are not carbs) and no Insulin, my BS shot up. So when I had the same meal again, I took 1 and 1/2 units of Insulin, which is more than I would take for the yogurt ( I like Irish yogurt and GF) under 6 carbs) or the fruit. Today I woke up on a 4.0, so I had 1/2 unit of Insulin with a yogurt.
Trying to get the balance right and with all that life throw's at us at times, can be so frustrating.
People are often spouting off about diabetes and food, we have seen it on here many times.
Yesterday my whole Insulin intake of the day was, 26 1/2 units, 3 x NovoRapid and 1 x Tresiba.

ickihun · Aug 20, 2018

tim2000s said:
If you are in a Carb cycle, then yes, it's easy to end up in a place where there's an imbalance, however, it's relatively easy to create an imbalance without eating carbs, and by physiological means, e.g., exercising with background insulin on board that keeps you flat normally can result in lows, regardless of whether you took insulin to cover carbs.

But it comes back to the issue of dogma. Noakes is digging the hole further. Whilst he's correct in stating that reducing the amount of carbs reduces the need for insulin, he's also (probably deliberately) missing the point that with the use of sub-optimal insulin, it's not just food/insulin carb cycles that cause hypos, and that, in a nutshell, is why you end up with many people getting annoyed by these types of conversation (and they don't just happen on Twitter - we've seen them here in the forum and also facebook).

I get that but he is pointing out one of the ways to help manage diabetes surely? Has he stated that low carbing cures everything about diabetes? If he has hes a fool.

Like I've said before low carbing is a tool to help manage diabetes. Like meds, tablets, exercise etc.
Low carbing is enough for those who have diabetes due to carb intolerance. Low carbing is an addition to my management. I still need insulin.
Carb counting doesn't work for me as my insulin resistance fluctuates so much and is sooo extreme no matter MY plan my body has other ideas.
None of my days routine is identical. Only routine is tablets, eat and insulin. Daily stresses and exercise levels with pain varies. That variant I cannot control. Just like how many times autistic son will wake me up through any one night.
Every person's individual needs are different. Hence why treatment is too.
It is amazing how useful low carb eating is for people like me... severely IR on insulin.
Noaks aims his work on type2s thou right?
I'm not sure, I don't know much of his work. I like Bernstein's better.

ickihun · Aug 20, 2018

Guzzler said:
At the risk of being shot down there does seem to be an unspoken rule here that dietary advice should not be given to those members with T1D and yet the opposite doesn't apply. This is, in my opinion, what can cause divisions not only between those with the different types but between those who have T1D and manage well on a 'normal' diet and those with T1D who do well with a lower carb way of eating.

What struck me first on reading the tweet in the OP was the twits arrogance in assuming that he/she was in the best position to comment on how another parent should raise their child (I may be reading too much into it but that is the way I am) only then did I think that the best people to give advice to the parent of a child with T1D are those in the same position and/or a medical professional. This is purely because parents are ultimately responsible for their children's well being and no parent would 'experiment' on their child willy nilly.

As for Prof. Noakes, he is not saying anything much different to that of Dr. Bernstein but Bernstein is not castigated for advising those with T2D. There lies the rub.

Bernstein's is a type1 but has huge experience with type2s. He's very experienced in management. He doesnt declare cures.

ickihun · Aug 20, 2018

Robinredbreast said:
Hi @Scott-C , you have raised some very good points. I have just read the above 'twitter link' and it certainly has got people's backs up !
I normally have a small yogurt for breakfast or a piece of fruit, both under 10 carbs. A few years ago, I tried scrambled eggs and 1 piece of bacon ( these are not carbs) and no Insulin, my BS shot up. So when I had the same meal again, I took 1 and 1/2 units of Insulin, which is more than I would take for the yogurt ( I like Irish yogurt and GF) under 6 carbs) or the fruit. Today I woke up on a 4.0, so I had 1/2 unit of Insulin with a yogurt.
Trying to get the balance right and with all that life throw's at us at times, can be so frustrating.
People are often spouting off about diabetes and food, we have seen it on here many times.
Yesterday my whole Insulin intake of the day was, 26 1/2 units, 3 x NovoRapid and 1 x Tresiba.

Hopefully they will educate those who think 'one size fits all'.

Guzzler · Aug 20, 2018

ickihun said:
Bernstein's is a type1 but has huge experience with type2s. He's very experienced in management. He doesnt declare cures.

I know who Dr. Bernstein is. I know a little of his personal history, too. Started his working life as an engineer, had the idea to create a glucometer that all T1Ds could use, switched to medicine, improved his own health and then improved the lives of his patients. The man is a legend. I did not mention cures in any of my comments.

tim2000s · Aug 20, 2018

Guzzler said:
As for Prof. Noakes, he is not saying anything much different to that of Dr. Bernstein but Bernstein is not castigated for advising those with T2D. There lies the rub.

I guess this comes back to the point that Bernstein is an Endocrinologist with Type 1 that gives advice to T1s and T2s, whereas Noakes was a Doctor of Sports Medicine that has Type 2, so technically wasn't treating either T1s or T2s in a professional capacity. That's probably why you get that difference in reaction...

Guzzler · Aug 20, 2018

tim2000s said:
I guess this comes back to the point that Bernstein is an Endocrinologist with Type 1 that gives advice to T1s and T2s, whereas Noakes was a Doctor of Sports Medicine that has Type 2, so technically wasn't treating either T1s or T2s in a professional capacity. That's probably why you get that difference in reaction...

On a personal level, does the comment by Laura Marston seem fair to you?

tim2000s · Aug 20, 2018

Guzzler said:
On a personal level, does the comment by Laura Marston seem fair to you?

As @bulkbiker has already said... That's twitter for you. I'd say it was on the extreme end of reactions.

ickihun · Aug 20, 2018

Guzzler said:
I know who Dr. Bernstein is. I know a little of his personal history, too. Started his working life as an engineer, had the idea to create a glucometer that all T1Ds could use, switched to medicine, improved his own health and then improved the lives of his patients. The man is a legend. I did not mention cures in any of my comments.

Sorry @Guzzler. I think I replied to wrong comment.
Really cannot focus on posting when kids are hanging off me.
Note to myself: don't post unless not being pulled everyday to Sunday by family.

britishpub · Aug 20, 2018

How Does This Kind Of Behaviour Affect The Low Carb Movement?

I didn't even know there was a "Low Carb Movement"

Glad I'm not a part of it

lindisfel · Aug 20, 2018

Don't you guys think there is some truth in the concept of the snowflake generation? Or are some of us, like me, pachyderms?

There are a multiplicity of views on anyone topic, I think unless someone is offensive, normal differences of opinion are quite in order.
D.

lindisfel · Aug 20, 2018

britishpub said:
How Does This Kind Of Behaviour Affect The Low Carb Movement?

I didn't even know there was a "Low Carb Movement"

Glad I'm not a part of it

You must have heard far worse in a British pub?

Sue192 · Aug 20, 2018

Scott-C said:
I sometimes go low carbish, many times not, but I think what extreme low carbers fail to understand is just how condescending and patronising they sound, as if they are right and everyone else is wrong.

The last bit of that sentence sums up Twitter very well - the spawn of Satan, in my opinion. Sadly, the attitude to which you refer is one of the reasons I backed out of here for a while, although this Forum is absolutely brilliant compared with others.

bamba · Aug 20, 2018

JohnEGreen said:
Twitter is for twits.

I think you need a different vowel to accurately describe some them.

britishpub · Aug 20, 2018

JohnEGreen said:
Twitter is for twits.

That’s a bit harsh.

Some of my best material is reserved for Twitter.

lucylocket61 · Aug 20, 2018

Isnt the Low Carb Movement to do with the constipation some suffer from as a result?

bulkbiker · Aug 20, 2018

lucylocket61 said:
Isnt the Low Carb Movement to do with the constipation some suffer from as a result?

More like the low carb non movement?

ickihun · Aug 20, 2018

I thought it wouldn't be long before the fact he no longer being a medical Dr would surface.
Shame.
No body would like to be reminded of that. Poor man.

All in the name of low carbing.

I admire him for putting himself out there but he should choose his fights. Ensuring he's medically accurate would help too. Since he's mentioned it in his twitter profile.

zand · Aug 20, 2018

Thank goodness he isn't a medical doctor! Medical doctors usually just dish out medicine. The treatment of obese T2s by some medical doctors is shameful.

JohnEGreen · Aug 20, 2018

britishpub said:
That’s a bit harsh.

Some of my best material is reserved for Twitter.

You make my case for me

How Does This Kind Of Behaviour Affect The Low Carb Movement?

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