How high does your BG need to be to cause damage?

[walnut_face]

Have read the article.And shared it previously to another diabetic fb page it was severely disliked.So the test we rely upon is no good?

The HbA1c test is reasonable for confirming that an individual IS diabetic when there are 2 readings above 49 (there may be exceptions to this) It is not necessarily reliable to confirm that someone IS NOT diabetic where the reading is below 48.
In my own case I have an HbA1c of 40, but I know from finger prick tests just how very diabetic I am.

 

[ickihun]

Good advice and yes, I do need to do more testing at those times. My testing is fairly recent and off my own back rather than what I've been recommended to do and so far I've been recording BG levels before meals. These range from between 5.1 and 8.0 and there doesn't seem to be a pattern or direct relationship to what I have or haven't eaten beforehand. My regime is minimal carbs, often less than 20g in a day ranging to a bit more on other days and typically during the week, I'm recording less than 1000 calories in a day whilst raising my burn rate with around 50mins per day activity. Feeling pretty knackered but in my view it's something I need to do to get where I need to be. (Bariatric surgery of the mind!)

Being knackered interfers with my bgs additionally. So all in all. I need to enjoy my sleep and exercise to lose weight and keep healthy bgs.

 

[Bluetit1802]

Have read the article.And shared it previously to another diabetic fb page it was severely disliked.So the test we rely upon is no good?

It certainly isn't good for all people in my belief. It is based on us all having 100% normal RBC with 100% normal haemoglobin and have a life span of 100 to 120 days. One size fits all. Well, one size doesn't fit all. Some people have shorter lived RBC so may have an HbA1c that is lower than perhaps it should be. Some people will have longer lived RBC and may have an HbA1c that is perhaps more than it should be.

It is also an average of the glycation, weighted towards the previous few weeks. Some people have prolonged low base levels, such as overnight, pre-meals and so on, but have huge spikes post meal. As the big spikes don't last as long as the low base levels do, their average could possibly produce an HbA1c in the non-diabetic range ..... but are they really? An OGGT may say otherwise. And those huge spikes are causing damage in the long term.

I am no scientist, and much of this stuff goes over my head, so if anyone has evidence to the contrary I would be pleased to hear it.

 

[Jamesuk9]

There are also arguments for fasting blood sugar and OGTT being unreliable too.

As an example, it is well known that if tests are done in the afternoon as many as 50% of those who would fail a morning test will pass and go undiagnosed.

Also the length of the fast can influence FBG numbers. I would register as Prediabetic in an 8 hour overnight fast taken first thing in the morning. If it were taken late afternoon or first thing in the morning after a 24 hour fast I would pass with under 5.0 mmol/L.

 

[Bluetit1802]

We would also most certainly fail an OGGT if we didn't eat normal amounts of carbs for 3 days before the test. A low carber who didn't do this would fail.

 

[BarbaraG]

To get a complete picture, you would need a CGM trace over several days while eating a varied diet. Who's got the time/money for that?

Re the point at which damage occurs: anything above 6.7 mmol/l could cause damage, but I imagine it is much like alchohol - an occasional drink, no problem, regular heavy drinking, big problem. Over 6.7 mmol/l of an hour or so once in a while - don't stress, your body will repair itself. Staying up there for many hours every day? Bad news.

 

[Pinkorchid]

Oh no, wasn't expecting it to be that bad!

Don't take everything you read on the internet as being set in stone we all get high readings sometimes for many different reasons not just from eating

 

[Jamesuk9]

Don't take everything you read on the internet as being set in stone we all get high readings sometimes for many different reasons not just from eating

I agree, a 10mmol/L spike is probably harmless if it's time limited to around 10 mins before it drops. Sustained for several hours is a totally different scenario.

 

[Michael4450]

I agree, a 10mmol/L spike is probably harmless if it's time limited to around 10 mins before it drops. Sustained for several hours is a totally different scenario.

The fear of God is put into our minds by in my case the nurse at my doctors medical centre which totally stressed me out. I saw my doctor on Monday absolutely terrific so understanding. I have had medication for T2 but I came off them 18 month ago and I am on a strict regime of what I eat for the rest of my life. Try and relax if you are tempted think twice and drink lots and lots of water my treat is a cup of coffee with coffee mate. Initial shock in May 2004 with T2 take care everyone enjoy life.

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

How long are these spikes lasting? If anyone drinks a bottle of lucozade I doubt very few would see their BS hold below 7.8 in the first hour. It shows in your case, that although you have very good control, you are still very much Diabetic. At a guess you lack first stage insulin response

The spikes last for a very short time perhaps about half an hour.All starch carbohydrates cause it .But I know that the coffee I have in the morning is a big contributing factor to these spikes .Have been cutting down.I still have some stomach fat to lose even after 30 kg which adds to the problem.I was told to stop eating starch which is very difficult.
I thought I knew it al by now but there is so much new info I have learned on this forum I will have to see if it is helpful.

 

[Bluetit1802]

The spikes last for a very short time perhaps about half an hour.All starch carbohydrates cause it .But I know that the coffee I have in the morning is a big contributing factor to these spikes .Have been cutting down.I still have some stomach fat to lose even after 30 kg which adds to the problem.I was told to stop eating starch which is very difficult.
I thought I knew it al by now but there is so much new info I have learned on this forum I will have to see if it is helpful.

What meds are you on for diabetes?

With spikes as high as yours it must be your diet causing them. Coffee won't cause such spikes unless you have sugar and a lot of skimmed milk in them. Starch is the main enemy, which is why you have been told to stop eating it.

 

[Indy51]

Coffee won't cause such spikes unless you have sugar and a lot of skimmed milk in them.

I may be wrong, but I think there are a subset of people that spike just from coffee - I think it's something to do with stress hormones. It seems that responses to coffee are highly individual - BG and/or BP can both be affected by it.

 

[Alison Campbell]

I found some statistics re neuropathy
Non diabetic occurrence 4 per 1000 of the population
Diabetics 7 per 1000 of the population

So not something we should worry too much about, diabetes increasing our chances by 3 in 1000 and that generally for those with poorer control.
https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/hosplea/diabetes_complications/fig4_neuro.htm

The study that you have linked to about hospital discharges does not match with your preceeding information. There are loads of studies that put the prevelance of neuropathy at up to 20% in diabetics.

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/BF00400697?LI=true

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

What meds are you on for diabetes?

With spikes as high as yours it must be your diet causing them. Coffee won't cause such spikes unless you have sugar and a lot of skimmed milk in them. Starch is the main enemy, which is why you have been told to stop eating it.

3metformin per day 500 mg.Take at 12 or 1 pm again at 5 or 6 then at 12 am.
Don't often eat if I have 2 cups of coffee in the morning.

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

I may be wrong, but I think there are a subset of people that spike just from coffee - I think it's something to do with stress hormones. It seems that responses to coffee are highly individual - BG and/or BP can both be affected by it.

Correct and for that reason the doctor I went to last told me to stop having it immediately.

 

[Bluetit1802]

3metformin per day 500 mg.Take at 12 or 1 pm again at 5 or 6 then at 12 am.
Don't often eat if I have 2 cups of coffee in the morning.

Coffee (caffeine) can cause high blood pressure, so if you are prone to that maybe change to decaffeinated?

What levels are you before your first coffee and what are you an hour and 2 hours later?
What are you before lunch?
Do you put milk, cream, sugar, anything else in it? Cream is best.

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

Coffee (caffeine) can cause high blood pressure, so if you are prone to that maybe change to decaffeinated?

What levels are you before your first coffee and what are you an hour and 2 hours later?
What are you before lunch?
Do you put milk, cream, sugar, anything else in it? Cream is best.

Only milk blood sugar is the same after 2 hours and 2 strong coffees.Maybe 1 point change Yes I have had 2 emergency situations with skyrocketing blood pressure.I have been cutting down but it's not gone completely yet.Apparently the doc told me as you get older the body has trouble eliminating caffeine and it hits all of a sudden.

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

The HbA1c test is reasonable for confirming that an individual IS diabetic when there are 2 readings above 49 (there may be exceptions to this) It is not necessarily reliable to confirm that someone IS NOT diabetic where the reading is below 48.
In my own case I have an HbA1c of 40, but I know from finger prick tests just how very diabetic I am.

Thanks interesting.

 

[walnut_face]

IIRC @Brunneria has issues with coffee and has moved to coffee substitute (chicory?)
https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=254889872

 

[Thyroiddiabetic]

There are also arguments for fasting blood sugar and OGTT being unreliable too.

As an example, it is well known that if tests are done in the afternoon as many as 50% of those who would fail a morning test will pass and go undiagnosed.

Also the length of the fast can influence FBG numbers. I would register as Prediabetic in an 8 hour overnight fast taken first thing in the morning. If it were taken late afternoon or first thing in the morning after a 24 hour fast I would pass with under 5.0 mmol/L.

I agree I found when I had the GTT test highest was 15 after 3 hours.But there was still a lot of the glucose in my stomach and when I ate later in the day my blood sugar went through the roof just managed to get the 3 litres of water I was so thirsty for.lol