How long can you stay in remission with ketosis prone type 2 diabetes?

25yokpt2 said:

I've recently been diagnosed ketosis prone type 2 diabetic and am trying to fight this and go into remission. The literature i've read seems to indicate that type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition and those who achieve remission will eventually come out of remission and use insulin (10 years max).

I'm 25 years old so I am concerned about the progression of the disease in my lifetime. Does anyone know if it's possible to stay in remission for life with ketosis prone type 2 diabetes?


Thanks

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I have heard of people who where diagnosed, and have been in remission for 20 years.

Basically what is your plan in fighting Diabetes?

I think depending on how your fight and what you do after remission is the key.

You might want to google Dr. Jay Wortman, who's been diagnosed T2 about 20 years ago and has been in remission ever since. Btw, he's also a low-carb proponent.

25yokpt2 said:

Thanks for the reply. It sounds cliche but it does mean alot people are willing to take the time to help me through this.

My basic plan is to lose as much weight as possible so that I can achieve remission. I'm currently obese and aiming for a healthy BMI. To stay in remission, I plan on staying on a low carb diet (<50g) and exercising 5 days a week of moderate to high intensity cardio for the rest of my life.

My hope is that I can stay in remission for the rest of my life (assuming I smash the lifestyle changes) but that's clearly very ambitious.

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Brilliant good plan,

• Take it each day as it comes and you will get bad days, Eventually you'll get mostly good days.
• It is a marathon not a sprit, Especially exercise. As injury will set you back more now.
• Highly recommend a book called the Diabetic code by Dr Jason Fung.
• Look up intermitting Fasting
• Watch a you tube channel called beat diabetes lots of good interviews and great advice from Dennis (the host).
• look to add weight training, as it is really good for blood glucose.

Also sounds obviously make it a lifestyle not a diet, I think that the biggest reason people don't stay in remission as they go back to old habits.

If you read these books (in the order of priority), that is what you all need to fight D2 and stay in remission. Diabetes is not a progressive disease if you are able to control your BGs.

1. Diabetes Soloution - Dr. Richard K Bernstein
2. Why We Get Sick - Dr. Ben Bikman
3. Protein Power - Dr. Michael Eades
4. Art and Science of Low Carb Living - Dr. Jeff Volek

For the carbs side, I would suggest to keep it to below 30 gms/day and particularly low in the breakfast due to high insulin resistance. You can get all energy from protein and fats that come with protein so low carb should never be an issue as long as you are doing it properly. Again the books above should give you all the answers. An investment of 100 quid is worth the knowledge of decades these guys put in there

Lastly, i wish you good luck!

25yokpt2 said:

I've recently been diagnosed ketosis prone type 2 diabetic and am trying to fight this and go into remission. The literature i've read seems to indicate that type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition and those who achieve remission will eventually come out of remission and use insulin (10 years max).

I'm 25 years old so I am concerned about the progression of the disease in my lifetime. Does anyone know if it's possible to stay in remission for life with ketosis prone type 2 diabetes?


Thanks

Click to expand...

This is very much a traditional view of type 2 and based on drug treatment rather than low carb/keto. As such most treatments aim to manage blood glucose levels and did little to address the underlying issue of insulin resistance hence the reason the problem got worse. No reason to assume that if you do address the underlying issues the outcome won’t be much improved.

25yokpt2 said:

Thanks, I really hope you're right.

Thanks so much for the reaidng material. I've already ordered them!

I do hope I can eventually achieve <30g of carbs a day but as @Andy_Warlow resonantly stated, it's a marathon and not a sprint. With this in mind, I've set myself a realistic goal of <50g a day. EVERYTHING has carbs

Thanks alot for the good luck. I'll gladly take it! Good luck to you too in your journey!

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Well I’ve managed ketosis at around 30- 50 g for the last 3 yrs. Meat has no carbs

25yokpt2 said:

Thanks for the reply. I really hope this is the case!

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So do we all. The evidence so far is very persuasive, even if it’s mostly anecdotal. Got to be worth trying as it’s certainly no worse, doesn’t have the risk of medication side effects, and manages a whole host of other metabolic conditions alongside T2

ziggy_w said:

You might want to google Dr. Jay Wortman, who's been diagnosed T2 about 20 years ago and has been in remission ever since. Btw, he's also a low-carb proponent.

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Dr wortman is amazing but he kind of breaks my heart when he always say “but ohh i am still insulin resistant” in his interviews. Would it kill him to do a OGTT test?!!

Drfarxan said:

Dr wortman is amazing but he kind of breaks my heart when he always say “but ohh i am still insulin resistant” in his interviews. Would it kill him to do a OGTT test?!!

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Hi @Drfaxan,

I guess most of us will never find out whether we are still insulin-resistant or not since insulin is so rarely measured during standard lab tests and without insulin one can't calculate Homa-IR. An interesting alternative might be the triglyceride-glucose index suggeted by Ted Naiman as a proxy, which is based on fasting trigs and glucose. Here is the link if you are interested https://www.burnfatnotsugar.com/TyGIndexCalculator.html

As to an OGTT as a measure of insulin resistance -- when on a low-carb/keto diet, a failed OGTT can also be due to adaptive glucose sparing (sometimes also called physiological insulin resistance as opposed to pathological insulin resistance) or the last-meal effect. This implies that even a person without diabetes or pathological insulin resistance can fail an OGTT when when usually eating few carbs. So generally, it's recommended to carb up for a few days to get more representative results.

In the end, we'll probably all have to make a decision whether it is worth it go high carb for a period of time to do an OGTT.

Btw, a few members have done an OGTT after returning to normal blood sugar levels and have done okay on it.

ziggy_w said:

Btw, a few members have done an OGTT after returning to normal blood sugar levels and have done okay on it.

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Speaking as someonee who has actually passed the OGTT post remission it still presents a few challenges for the future.
You exist in some medical limbo where you are diagnosed with a disease that no known medical test could detect (perhaps barring a Kraft Assay.
So that's it, pat on the back, you're cured . . . not so simple.

The temptation is there to poke the bear, try more carbs, not like the good old days but within reason.
First place you'll notice it will be on the scales, hyper insulin caused your decades of weight gain & obesity in the past, now you risk starting the cycle all over again.
Plus you risk doing it with pancreas that was already brought past the point of no return once.

I believe Taylor's theory of the personnal fat threshold is only part of the whole picture.
You have to be also concious of aging, muscle depletion & unknown genetic factors which may be at play in the future.
Saying that once you keep your weight below X stone you'll be OK is too simplistic.

Some of us have been diagnosed in our 30s & 40s, we know have to behave ourselves for the next 40 odd years to achieve an acceptable lifespan & enjoyable life.
The great unkown in this journey will be medical science, the cure that is always 5 years away, less if you're a mouse.

You don't actually have to lose weight on purpose, exercise or cut carbs to the bone. Just get a meter to test your blood and reduce your carb intake down to where you are getting normal numbers after eating - whatever amount that is, that is what you can eat.
I found that once I was seeing under 8mmol/l after eating my numbers continued to reduce without changing anything else.
I eat fresh and frozen veges to make up the 40 gm of carbs per day I can cope with, a wide variety of colours and types.
I have lost weight, but as a result of reducing my blood glucose, and I take more exercise, because I have more energy - these are consequences, not part of the 'cure'.

I've never seen the term "ketosis prone Type 2 Diabetes". Anyone care to enlighten me?

25yokpt2 said:

With the caveat that I am newly diagnosed, I'll try my best to explain.

Ketosis prone type 2 diabetes (sometimes referred to as flatbush diabetes) basically means I'm type 2 diabetic with the added bonus that I'm much more susceptible to DKA (I was newly diagnosed recently following a hospital admission for DKA).

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Ah - the thing is that to treat type two, the usual advice is to eat so few carbs you are in ketosis - that means burning fat. It is a totally different situation from DKA, so you need to have medical advice from someone who knows the difference - not all HCPs do.