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How long for Metformin to show the effects

britishpub said:
He won’t
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Sadly, I agree with you. This thread, however, may be read by others who are unsure of the merits of questioning our HCPs advice and making informed choices, fingers crossed.
 
NoCrbs4Me has listed 14 studies at post number 50.Maybe you would care to reconsider your "no response" claim?
 
@ittiandro
In response to that study on the effect of fats on glucose control, I am wondering if you have misunderstood.

Fats do bind somehow to the glucose, but they don't actually raise it. They keep any carb-induced spikes down a bit and then keep that level fairly straight for a few hours. So if the carbs would otherwise spike to, for example, 9mmol/l, by adding fats the spike might well be 6mmol/l and then drop gently back to 5mmol/l over 2 to 3 hours. It is preferable for health reasons to have a steady line of 6mmol/l than a roller coaster and constant swings from 9mmol/l down to 5mmol/l. It is roller coaster swings that cause the damage, and slightly higher levels but flat ones will not cause damage. Keeping levels in a narrow band with minimal variability is the key.
 
This thread started off as a question in a section specifically targetted at the newly diagnosed and that was specifically asking about the action of metformin.
Sadly, as with so much else on the site, the thread has rapidly become a soap box for the same old arguments from the same old people about diet and doctors - quite boring for those of us that have been here a while and inappropriate when they hijack threads and have nothing to do with the question posed.
Whilst I do not agree with th position taken by the original poster, I think the lack ofrespect shown in the ttone of some of the responses is inappropriate and to the detriment of the site..
 
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Sorry but I disagree. The OP came asking advice and was helped. The conversation then turned to other things that may help which the OP rubbished quite strongly. I don't see it as the "same old people" hijacking the thread I see it as a community trying to help a new member open their mind to new things rather than be blindly led by HCP's who in my view have served the OP rather poorly. High FBG's and PP readings should probably have been investigated years ago. Who knows what harm may have been caused already?
If you find the threads boring then why not simply ignore them rather than come and "tell off" us naughty children who are simply sharing our combined wisdom.
 
The Guardian article I linked really lays it all out - and is all verifiable through independent sources. For me, that was my "light bulb" moment. I think it's an important read for anyone - no matter their stance on carbs, diets, diabetes and the rest.

I admit to being a bit disappointed that the OP is already planning to leave us: aside from any LCHF / other dietary talk / support / choices, this is a community with a lot to offer, and I urge @ittiandro to rethink his decision to "bow out" because of the variety of support available here.

If, truly, he intends to leave, I wish him all the best: good health and happiness.
 
What I saw posted in response to the original poster q is not anything I would recognise as being supportive, maybe thats the intention but I dont think its the effect, as evidenced by people leaving
In response to BB’s comments - I do largely ignore posts made by some people, not because of what they say but because of how they say it, particularly when it is directed at newbies to diabetes / the site
 
1. Your blood glucose are at diabetic levels. They are higher than mine when I was diagnosed with Type 2. You should see another doctor and get a second opinion. Get an HbA1c test and an OGTT. You should be checked for NAFLD. Your doctor should know what these are.
2. Trying to refute your opinions doesn't mean we are not open to dissenting opinions.
3. You have not provided any studies that refute LCHF as a way to address type 2 diabetes. "Impact of Fat, Protein, and Glycemic Index on Postprandial Glucose Control in Type 1 Diabetes: Implications for Intensive Diabetes Management in the Continuous Glucose Monitoring Era" is not about LCHF or even type 2 diabetes. The information in support of LCHF is out there. I even provided you a list of articles published in scientific journals. Did you read them?
4. What clinical trials warning against LCHF??? Have you found any? I'm sure we'd like to see them.

I recommend that you have a read of this website: www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/
It has plenty of references to scientific papers. After you read it and absorbed it, you will know more about type 2 diabetes than your doctor does. People with chronic conditions should not rely solely on the advice of one doctor than may or may not know much about it.

If you would like to be proven wrong about LCHF, then just try it. If your blood glucose levels go down, you will have been proven wrong. If they go up, you'll have been proven right and you can go back to what you were doing before.
 
Feel free to follow your own advice and post something supportive. If you see something in a thread that is against forum rules, report it to a moderator.
 
I have just finished reading Diet 101: the truth about low carb diets by Jenny Ruhl in which she provides what I experienced as carfefully balanced info regarding a whole lot of scientific studies, both for and against low carb in relaation to both weight loss and diabetes. I would reccomend it to anyone
Theere were a number of important issues covered in the studies such as
1) why most people who lose mass amounts of weight on v low carb are male 2) why adherrnce rates are generally very poor 3) why some people regain mass amounts of weight if they go off lchf and end up heavier thaan they started 4) the impact of lchf on grehlin, leptin and other hunger controlling hormones, and how these differ between individuals 5) the relatitonship, or not, between insulin levels, blood glucose levels and hunger
 
What does that have to do with how long metformin takes to show the effects?
 
NoCrbs4Me said:
What does that have to do with how long metformin takes to show the effects?
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As much as all the other posts about diet that have already derailed the thread. P,s. Its also by the same author you yourself direct people to a couple of responses up ( i.e Jenny Ruhl the owner / author of the ww phlaunt.com site)
 
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Hi All,

Several posts on this thread have been deleted for rudeness.
Any further such posts, and any retaliation to them, will also be deleted.

Basically, if you can’t be civil to each other, then don't bother to post. Continued rude posts may lead to Warnings, as per the forum rules.

The thread has moved off its original subject. However, the OP’s (original poster’s) question was discussed in detail for the first two pages, and the OP has entered into the later discussion, of their own volition.
 
As we know, Metformin alone has little impact on glucose levels caused by the ingestion of a high carb intake so it follows that suggestions are made as what can affect those levels to improve them thus diet was discussed. Excercise could have been discussed, too, but the OP seems to have that aspect covered.

Throughout my years of exposure to forums I have found that once the initial subject has been exhausted the subject sometimes meanders into associated topics. This is exactly what happens in real life. Threads then tend to tail off and disappear.
 
So now you agree that we can talk about LCHF in this thread? That is excellent news!
 
Stick with dosage that works....for you. Mine is working again. I've lost my familiar 1kg per week this week as a result.
 
Thats your right. Stick with what works for your body. It shouldnt go wrong.
If it does come back ?
I hope no damage by then thou. Often the proof is in the eating.
 
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bulkbiker said:
I was going to give you a list of eminent doctors and scientists who would say that you have a flawed understanding of how fat is metabolised. But then decided that you probably have made up your mind already so won't waste my time.
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I was about to bow out of this Forum, faced with the sanctimonious resentment of some members, who see my arguments as biased, wrong and bent on proving that I am right at all costs (and , of course, the others wrong , without listening to them.) ..I do listen more than some may think, but I also listen to those who have different opinions than Dr Unwin’s. This is the difference.

I will step in again, though, because I read somebody in this Forum referring to Dr David Unwin as “ Our guru” and a red light immediately flashed in my mind..

This person has probably used the term guru more as an analogy than in the full literal, ( and uncritical) sense of a devotee blindly obeying his Guru’s precepts, but, still, the reaction of some members to my rebuttal, in which I questioned the LCHF diet, sounded somewhat more akin to the reaction to heresy than a simple disagreement..

I will point out the following:

1.The same site hosting your Forum (https://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/201...vidence-of-low-carb-diet-benefits-in-the-bmj/, while saying that

Quote

The low-carb diet has been shown to improve blood glucose control and HbA1c levels, while it can also help with weight loss and type 2 management.

Unquote,

Also explicitly recognizes

Quote

However, most medical guidelines in the UK do not recommend the diet. The NHS advocates eating relatively high-carb and low-fat foods, while Diabetes UK highlights a lack of evidence regarding the “long-term safety”

Unquote

Precisely! This lack of evidence is exactly the point I have been making all along! You cannot accuse me of harboring prejudices or not listening to the others, when Diabetes U.K. itself expresses my same reserves..

Regarding the effectiveness and long term safety of the diet, I asked my doctor yesterday..

In all fairness, contrary to my initial belief, I must admit that both her and the head-nurse of the clinic, who deal with diabetic patients all the time, didn’t deny that a low calories diet has some benefits, but there is a perverse flip side: if you go off the diet, there is a dangerous rebound effects: the hyperglycemia then soars up with a vengeance and in the end the damage outweighs the advantages of the diet… They have seen this time and again…

In the end, they believe that with Diabetes 2, the traditional approach, i.e. exercise and medication, is still the best and the safest approach, because not everyone and probably only a few , have the discipline and the resolve to stick to the diet..

Metformin, widely used for Diabetes 2, has been around since 1922 ! It wouldn’t be so widely prescribed if it was not effective, or worse, if it had serious long-term side effects.

Exercising is certainly easier and more rewarding, even in the short term.

In fact, even those days that I feel sluggish or ..lazy, I make an effort to go to the gym , because of the “ kick “ it gives me, in terms of mood and physical well-being.

It may be ..the placebo effect, too, but it is also scientifically well-documented that exercise, especially jogging, somehow enhances the production of endorphins, our… natural and healthy drugs..

In a way, like many, I ..am addicted to exercise, but this is why I can still eat carbs and keep my sugar within an acceptable range: according to numerous sources and my doctor’s diagnosis , 7.3 fasting and 8.4 p.p. , while not normal, are within the pre-diabetic range ( which goes up to 11 mmol/L contrary to the opinion of others in this Forum) .

In the end, exercise is demonstrably 100% safe and efficient for everybody, including diabetics, while low calories diet is widely controversial and may be only 50% safe (for every Dr Unwin there is bound to be at least another doctor, if not more, with a different opinion.)

In the doubt, I choose the 100% option : exercise. I think it stands to reason.

I am sure that among those who swear on a low carb diet and perhaps struggle hard to stick to it day in , day out , there are many able-bodied diabetics who would enjoy ( and greatly benefit from) one hour of jogging, treadmill, swimming , jumping around , ANYTHING (!) at least 2, 3 times a week., without gambling with their diet.

2.Concerning the list of eminent doctors and scientists who can dispel my “misconception” about the metabolism of fats and who, assumedly support a low carbs diet, I am sure they exist, but if you read the Australian clinical study I mentioned earlier (http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/diacare/38/6/1008.full.pdf),

you will also see a list of other equally eminent doctors, scientists, universities and Health Organizations that have the same” misconception” about fat metabolism..( actually that “misconception”, if it is one, was not really mine. I simply quoted it from the study. So you have to argue it out with them, not me..)


4.As to the argument” It worked for me”, I do not intend to question that many, probably most of those who followed Dr Unwin’s guidelines have seen some improvement in their diabetic condition , but , once more, I am not too sure that there is a scientifically proven causal link between the LCHF and a better glucose management.

There are too many variables at play and the causes of these improvements in the diabetic condition may lie elsewhere…

Also, the placebo effect ( i.e. the psycho-somatic element) is well known : there have been thousands of well documented gravely ill religious believers recovering from deadly diseases or crippling conditions after dipping in the “holy “ waters of the Holy Virgin’s Shrines at Lourdes( France) or Fatima( Portugal) , waters that were appallingly dirty and bacteria infected like those of a cess-pool . But they believed and, for some reasons, many healed completely..


This is my take


Ittiandro
 
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