How-vegetarian-CURE-diabetes-Plant-based-diets

[zand]

@phoenix I remember watching a video you put on here about HCLF. I don't remember if it said how much fat per day was allowed? What is classed as minimal? I'm just wondering if this diet would in fact be harder to stick to than a low carb one.

Also do you know if type 2's lose weight on this diet? Is the thinking that carbs and fat together are the problem?

 

[phoenix]

Esselstyn (mostly associated with anti CVD diets) argues for less than 10% http://www.dresselstyn.com/news_info.htm
Mcdougall also seems to go for 10% http://www.nutritionj.com/content/13/1/99
Ornish also less than 10% fat http://health.usnews.com/best-diet/ornish-diet
I haven't found any percentage for Furhman he isn't completely vegetarian : 90% plant foods with nuts and seeds the major source of fat (minimal/no oil)https://www.drfuhrman.com/members/m_library/OJPM20120300014_73341742.pdf (some impressive graphs on this but these are his patients using an internet coaching service, so not a valid trial)

On the other hand the traditional Indian diet used by Viswanathan was 60% carb, 30% fat, 10% protein ( 52g of fibre) http://www.nutritionfoundationofindia.res.in/pdfs/BulletinArticle/Pages_from_nfi_04_91_1.pdf

eliminating meat and most fats will almost inevitably drop calorie intake considerably so that would probably lead to weight loss, lowering of insulin resistance etc

NB the links were just the first ones I found with percentages. I'm not telling anyone that any of these diets is right for any particular person . I would find it incredibly difficult to stick to such low quantities of fat and although I try to eat lots of plant foods and fibre my diet has far more fat and animal produce than any of these. They are certainly below all government guidelines for fat (just as HFLC is above them)
What I find interesting is that they have all have success stories and avid followers.

And perhaps the fibre content is really important . I think what I mentioned before was the Jim Mann lecture which showed that all the trials that led to higher carb diets being advised were also very high fibre (lots of pulses)

 

[jack412]

@jack412, Your are missing the point . I have gone on a diet that works, I do not use medication and I do not need to over eat as you suggest.
The facts are in results, which I retain for reference.
It is obvious that members are not going on a vegan diet just because it works for me.
I read and respect most of what you send, however there is no need for you to discredit someone that you have no knowledge of.
This may help

Neal Barnard, M.D./ a Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) site

sorry should have said "I do not use medication"

I'm not anti veggi, but I am anti 'eat as much carb as you want' .you yourself, as you said, limit your carbs ..
I would love to see someone with an A1c of 12% become a HC diabeic, and by eating lots of carbs their diabetes goes away
no doubt there are trial and studies proving this...it's just that I haven't found them yet, has anyone else?

 

[zand]

@phoenix thanks for that. It seems harder and more restrictive than LCHF, I think I'll stick to what I know., but it's interesting

 

[jack412]

@phoenix thanks for that. It seems harder and more restrictive than LCHF, I think I'll stick to what I know., but it's interesting

it seems it's a 7th day adventist thing, his video's are on youtube and he uses adventist stuff
http://www.ncahf.org/articles/o-r/pcrm.html

 

[zand]

it seems it's a 7th day adventist thing, his video's are on youtube and he uses adventist stuff
http://www.ncahf.org/articles/o-r/pcrm.html

Oh, Neal Barnard again!

 

[izzzi]

Oh, Neal Barnard again!

He does get around and stir things up

Neal Barnard approved the release by PCRM of a medical report on the death Robert Atkins The New York City medical examiner's office said the report had been "inappropriately obtained" by a cardiologist, who said he had provided it to PCRM for research purposes only. Barnard said the cardiologist was aware the report would be released and justified it to expose the effect of the diet on Atkins' health.

I think I will just stick to my diet vegan type diet and steer clear of all the Propaganda

 

[al_leister]

Roughly 2 years ago I moved to a vegetarian diet. The move was nothing at all to do with my health, rather the animals. My cholesterol level dropped below 4 and I am now on 1, 500mg metformin per day and not two.
Maybe coincidence, I don’t know.
The change in cholesterol, medication and the unlimited day and night energy was an unexpected bonus.

 

[izzzi]

Roughly 2 years ago I moved to a vegetarian diet. The move was nothing at all to do with my health, rather the animals. My cholesterol level dropped below 4 and I am now on 1, 500mg metformin per day and not two.
Maybe coincidence, I don’t know.
The change in cholesterol, medication and the unlimited day and night energy was an unexpected bonus.

Well done @al_leister sometimes simplicity is best without all the complications that we have to listen and adhere to, especially when we haven't a clue what they're going on about.

 

[catherinecherub]

This is what NHS choices had to say about the article.

Behind the headlines provides an unbiased and evidence-based analysis of health stoies that make the news

http://www.nhs.uk/news/2014/11Novem...diet-beneficial-for-people-with-diabetes.aspx

"Vegetable diet will beat diabetes: Meat-free lifestyle cures killer disease," is the typically overblown headline in the Daily Express.

But researchers actually found a vegetarian diet led to a quite modest fall in only one measure of blood glucose called HbA1C, a measure of blood glucose control.

The paper reports on a systematic review which combined the results of six trials that involved 255 people with type 2 diabetes. They examined whether vegetarian or vegan diets improved blood glucose control compared with a control diet.

Overall, the pooled results of five of these trials found a vegetarian or vegan diet reduced HbA1c by 0.39%. There was no significant effect on fasting glucose levels, an assessment of how efficiently the body can process glucose in the short term.

This slight reduction in HbA1c is no cure. As the researchers themselves pointed out, the reduction is less than you would expect if a patient was being treated with the drug of choice for type 2 diabetes, metformin.

This review also has various important limitations, including the variable design and quality of the six trials included. So, it does not prove that a vegetarian or vegan diet is better for a person with type 2 diabetes, and any media claims of a "cure" for the condition are entirely
This organisation is described in the publication as one that, "promotes the use of low-fat, plant-based diets and discourages the use of animal-derived, fatty, and sugary foods". This represents a potential conflict of interest in the interpretation of the results.

The study was published in the peer-reviewed medical journal, Cardiovascular Diagnosis and Therapy and the study is open access, so it is free to read the study online.

The Daily Express' coverage of the study is accurate and contains some useful background information, so it is frustrating that its headline is totally misleading, especially as it was on the front page.........."

The article is well worth reading as it puts the study into perspective and does not use sensationalism.